DJAngelicon

Hey guys, Is there a way to lower the stock springs a big or do I need to purchase a new set of springs that are lower?

elwood

iTrader: (1)

You can cut coils out of your stock springs. When you cut a spring, its rate increases slightly, which is usually a good thing. Since the spring is shorter, a higher spring rate is good so you don't bottom out. Most aftermarket lowering springs are not only shorter, but have a significantly higher spring rate to avoid bottoming. OEM springs are cheap and easy to come by, so I'd cut a little bit at a time, try it, and see if I like it.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

As elwood said it is possible, but youll probably end up bottoming out your suspension, and increasing the binding in the rear.
Aftermarket springs have a different spring rate, making them stiffer and harder to compress (what bottoms out your suspension) which is the only way to go if you want to lower your car.
This is also why lowering springs create a stiffer ride, thats what allows them to lower your car.

IMO do it properly and get a set of new lowering springs...They really dont cost that much, and will also make your car handle better. I think its the only way to go.

DriftFB

Don't be cheap, some nice RB's cost $200, and work great.

If you cut springs you don't increase your spring rate at at all, you just shorten the factory lengeth, the rate stays the same, and your car, especially a 1st gen, will bottom out alot more. With the Mcpherson strut suspesion you don't want to lower too much but you do want to increase the spring rate, the opposite of cutting springs.

Sorry if my post is out of order and not thought out, but some how I am on my first sugar rush in years, woohoo.

nick812

If you cut teh stock springs upgrade the shocks and struts. My friend cut 1 1/2 coils off the front and 1 off the rear and did a new set of shocks struts. Looks good drives good. He spent about $150 on that setup.

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

I cut 1 coil off my RB rear springs before since it sat too high, but the ride got a lot bumpier. I bought another pair and it gave me a much better ride. If you get RB springs, your rear would look higher than before since the stock springs probably sagged... The RB springs will give you a really nice setup for street and some auto-x(not really competitive)... I also have Koni red struts and tokico hp shocks for the rear

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

While you are right about the bottoming out, I believe your statement about the springs is off.
The rate willl change a small bit, simply because as the spring is shortened you lose a bit of area where the load would have been distributed, making it harder to compress which would technically mean the rate has increased.

Imagine holding a ruler off the edge of your desk, and pushing the end down.
When there is lots of the ruler off the desk, its easy to push it down but when you shorten the amount of ruler off the desk, it makes it harder to push down the same distance.
Its still the same ruler, but its physical properties have changed.

So, just because its the stock spring, doesnt mean the spring rate is the same no matter how short it is.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Cutting springs, imho, belongs on the Honda forums. There is a lot more involved in suspension and handling upgrades than simply lowering the car. If you just want it for looks, leave your old sagging springs on the car. If you are looking for handling improvements, there are several routes and budget levels one can pursue.

If all you want is lower and have no budget, buy some wooden blocks.

DriftFB

Your looking at it the wrong way, springs aren't rulers.

A spring is wound to be compressed at a certain rate. Ex. 450 lb springs mean that to compress the spring 1 inch you need 450 lbs sitting on top of the spring. Now if you cut the spring in half all of the material in both halves are still wound at the same rate. Meaning that you still need 450 lbs to compress them 1 inch.

EDIT: The exception to this is progressive spring rate springs, and even then the spring rate won't change, just the spring rate that encouters compression first will change.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

So your saying that if you cut a 400 lb spring in half it will still compress an inch from 400 lbs on it...

That doesnt sound right. Flat or curved, its all the same.
Less area for the compression to occur, less compression. Its that simple.

DriftFB

What your saying doesn't make sense, your saying that by cutting something in half it will become more stiff?

They wind steel into coils that compresses at a certain rate, its that simple. Are you saying that if you have a flat, square, piece of metal and you try bending it and it takes 200lbs or force, and you cut it in half will take more or less force per square inch than it took to bend the original piece?

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

You have to think about it as individual coils.
Say you have a single coil that is only 1" tall and will compress .1" with 100 lbs.

Put 100 lbs on top and it will compress .1"

Now heres the tricky part.

Add another indentical coil on top of that one.
Now you have 100 lbs supported by 2 coils, and each one will compress .1" per 100 lbs
Since the 100 lbs is being supported by both coils, they will each compress .1" resulting in a total of .2" compression.

The # of coils is definately a factor in spring rate.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Nice try, but the 100 lbs is spread over 2 coils, so each coil sees 50 lbs and compresses .05" for a total of .1".

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

Thats only if you put them side by side, we are stacking them, as a matter of fact the bottom coils actually support the weight of the others above as well as the 100 lbs, which is very little but definately true.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

Common guys, this is easy stuff here.

DriftFB

yeah it is easy stuff, and your not getting it.

The two coils stacked still take 100 lbs to compress, we agree there.

The point is that the 1st coil would have to "theoretically" be compressed all the way before the second coil would compress. Or as Trochoid said, each spring would compress .5.

It takes 100 lbs to compress one spring .1, it would take 100 lbs to compress two of the same spring(next to each other) .5 inches right? So why wouldn't it compress the .5 each if they where stacked.

Why do you think race teams don't cut springs? It doesn't work.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

A. why would one coil have to compress before the next? they are both seeing the same weight, which would make them compress together at the same time.

B. the reason they would compress .05" each if they were beside each other is because they would share the weight and therefore each support half.
Put them on top of each other and they both are supporting the full weight, and compressing .1" each.

Should have spent more time in high school physics....

GavinJuice

Imagine a 10 coil spring sitting upright on a table. You place 200 lbs on the spring. The weight moves the top of the spring down 1 inch. So your spring rate is 200 lbs per inch. Each one of the ten coils has shrunk 1/10 of an inch.

Now cut the spring in half. You have 5 coils now. When you place the 200 lbs on it, each coil still shrinks 1/10 of an inch. (same diameter coil, same amount of deflection.) Because there's only 5 coils, the spring will only move down 5/10 of an inch.

This gives you a new spring rate of 400 lbs per inch. Twice as short = twice as stiff.

found this here http://www.allpar.com/eek/coils.html

so because you don't have 5 other coils to shrink another 5/10th of an inch, the rate increases.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

BAM!! thank you gavinjuice!

Its time for bed now that thats settled. lol

GavinJuice

ya this post got me thinkin

DriftFB

Ha, only each coil doesn't add to the total spring rate, each coil has its own ammount of deflection. Each coil has the 200 lb rate. Thats why when you put a 2000 lb car on 4 500 lb springs the car isn't already bottomed out.

Your saying you cut something in half and it gets twice as stiff? You tell me who didn't pay attention in high school physics.

Tommorrow I am going outside with some OEM FB springs and a 100 lb weight. Do you gentlemen care to put any money on it? A bet of $20? To both of you if your interested.

GavinJuice

why wouldn't you think that by cutting a coil in half, that you would have to apply twice as much weight to get the same amount of deflection? You now have half as many coils doing the same amount of work to get the same result..

It's not that the spring in itself is any stronger, its just how that weight is now applied.

DriftFB

But you see the springs are doing the same amount of work, thats why cars with cut springs bottom out so easily. A spring, reguardless of its lb rating can only support so much weight before the sping is compressed flat and it has no where else to go. And you guys are saying that if you take out 1/2 spring it won't take 1/2 the weight to get the spring flat.

So your saying that if I have a soda can and I can barely crush it with 10 lbs, I will need 20 lbs to crush 1/2 the can? No, I would need the same 10lb weight, but it would only take half the distance for the can to flatten. Your arguement not only doesn't make sense, its down right backwards.

Again I say, put money on it, talk is cheap.

GavinJuice

by cutting a coil off a spring youryour going to drop your car an equal amount, thats where the bottoming out happens. It's not that fact that now it can't handle the weight of the car so it bottoms out.

maxcooper

If you halve the number of active coils, the spring rate will double.

http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

-Max