DJAngelicon

Hey guys I was just wondering what is a good set up to get a killer 300HP 12A set up and what is a range cost for it?

If you can please name the parts that would be needed for this kind of set up and if you know a price range for each parts that would be cool if you can provide a price range for them.

Thanks In advance!

P.S. I heard some peoples got 600HP out of a 12A and i was wondering if anyone here have that?

Angel,

autopaul

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-archive-71/engine-how-build-high-output-12a-turbo-without-blowing-up-your-motor-380353/
you should read this
its helped give me an understanding on how im going to build up my motor, and what parts i need to gather first.. your two options are huge port job or a turbo, or both
the biggest importance is fuel delivery for one that will last

Lee Lyons

1 billion dollars...no 1 million dollars...muhahahaha

DJAngelicon

Hey thanks autopaul. I will be taking a look at it and see because I even though I can not built an engine here where I am living at right now but is still nice to know.

<~~~ *Please Note* "I wa falling at sleep when typing. Very tire so sorry about the grammar.

85rotarypower

Well, first off to be streetable, you HAVE to use a turbo. To get that much power out of a 12A without a turbo, you would have to peripheral port it, which is in no was streetable IMO. Even then you might not reach 300 hp. If you go with a turbo, 300 hp is easily achievable. For a turbo, I would suggest a T04 or similar turbo, VERY big intercooler, and a holley 650 with RB manifold. A modified TII exhaust manifold should work fine with a custom downpipe. Also, a MUST HAVE for this much power is a TII tranny and a beefed up rear end, mabey a Ford 8.8. This also means a custom driveshaft is in order.

I really can't give too much input on this, but I know there are a bunch of people that could give you tons of advice on turbos. Directfreak is a good person to ask.

Oh ya, I think you'll be looking at spending about 5g's for the turbo, 10g's+ for the P-Port.

peejay

Well golly gee, I guess I better not take this:



and put it into my daily-driver.

And I'd better find a way to spend an additional $9800 if I'm going to put $10k into this thing...

Admittedly this is not going to be a 300hp beast, more like 200ish HP... but a powerband like a stock T2 engine: big grunt and all done by 6500. Nice torque curve, N/A reliability, no engine-eating high RPM bullcrap, and killer idle.

- Pete (Dremel, die grinder, drill press, MIG welder. All stuff a half-serious hotrodder should have in his garage *anyway*...)

hammmy

So if you were to aim for 300hp, would 85rotary's predictions of ****-poor streetability then come into play?

PaulFitzwarryne

No if you choose the right options.

I suggest take a 12A, rebuild, street port, add a turbo T04 would be best, front mounted intercooler, early front mounted oil cooler and short radiator, light steel clutch, Bov, high pressure clutch, upgraded fuel pump, high performance carb[Holley or Weber], upgraded brakes, high performance pod air intake, upgraded header, exhaust and muffler, turbo timer. Your budget will be $3-7k depending whether its new parts and the amount of work you do yourself. Get rid of ac, airpump, and pollution controls.

One step better would be to go efi with an appropriate throttle body , ecu, and upgraded fuel system including surge tank. If you are into rebuilds try a 12A/13B hybred to get better injection options.

Add a boost control [say 6-12psi], extre gauges, front and rear spoilers, upgraded plug wires and coil, fuel pressure regulator. Think of ss brake and fuel lines. Realistically a $ 6-12 k budget is needed.

If you are building a street machine, then you can get away with stock tranny and driveshaft. however if you are going to do the occasional track work go for the 13BT tranny in which case you will need a custom drive shaft. The se rear end will be strong enough unless you do 7,000rpm clutch drops in which case consider further upgrading the clutch, perhaps even to puck but that is street marginal.

However you would still only be halfway there; lowered suspension, upgraded springs, adjustable shocks, upgraded bushes and rear sway bar, tower strut bar, se rear end with lsd, 16" alloy wheels with high performance tires. Add $3k to your budget

Think of interior upgrades; decent bucket seats, steering wheel, short throw shifter. Add a another $1k to your budget.

To build a 300hp car is not just a case of adding engine power.

This is basically what I did using a 12AT engine but with turbo stock ports to get 268hp flywheel on my daily driver, and it is far more streetable than a stock 12A as you can design the set-up to get plenty of low down torque.

peejay

Probably not. There's just the expense factor: carbon-aluminum apex seals (instead of reusing the old ones...) to handle the high RPM, hardened stationary gears to handle the high RPM, rotor clearancing to handle the high RPM, rotor gear pinning to handle the high RPM... do you see a pattern?

The carbon seals also won't last nearly as long as the iron ones. But they *are* cheaper new vs. new, and they are more housing-friendly. And if you overrev an iron seal engine then you lunch the engine far quicker than a carbon seal engine would wear out...

85rotarypower

I was merely stating how much it would be to build a RELIABLE P-Port the right way and still make that much power. Its from my research that I came up with this number. And as I said, IN MY OPINION its not very streetable. One persons opinion of streetable is different from anothers.

DJAngelicon

Can a setup like that have a High Flow Cat and would that affect performance? Since ya meantion alot of changest then won't a 13BT II would be better instead since no matter what I have to change the rear end and shalf etc... It sound like a big project that can take up to 10K to do or more. If that is the case then a 13BT would be best than a 12AT?

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

The above discussed setups would require you to chunk the emissions gear in the trash hopper.

peejay

Emissions legality should not be a concern with a turbo engine swap. Just make sure you swap the complete setup.

Of course, the best way to go from an emissions standpoint is to ditch the rotary engine altogether. Then you can have your power and clean air too.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

We'll See. I will be ditching my center magnaflow soon for a High-flow cat. I figure I could lose 10-15 hp and not smell like a gas tank everywhere I drive my car.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Pete,

You are building a Peripheral port engine, with a holley and homemade
intake? And your shooting for only 200ish hp?

Why not just have a large street port? Keep the stock flywheel (for smooth idle), and no one would even know it's ported. You'll have all the HP you wanted with this setup.

I am not sure you will have any velocity in that intake, and with it, all your torque. But, I don't know jack schitt about p-ports..

So, When is it going in?

Rotor13B

(Turns on Jeapordy theme music and awaits peejay's answer.)

deeman111

so you want 300hp.. well thats my aim too. Try and get a rebuilt extend port 12a with turbo rotors, then a custom exhaust manifold going into a nice turbo... possible even a hi-flowed series 5 might do the trick. For intake... forget all this holley crap, go for a series 5 manifold/throttlebody, with the s5 CAS and then run a decent computer, then get a decent fuel pump and surge tank and your set.

Lightweight flywheel, and a med-big intercooler are a must for efficiency and then you will need a stronger gearbox, once again a series 5 turbo will suffice for a cheap upgrade.


-James

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

I agree with DF. All that work for a 200ish HP.

peejay

As soon as I finish it.

Why not a street port? Because side ports suck ***! A peripheral port will make far more torque at a given RPM. Meaning you can make as much power at a lower engine speed. Lower engine speeds mean greater reliability, and lower engine speeds also mean better acceleration, since rotational inertia goes up as the square of RPM. (I don't have my calcs handy but as i recall, rotational inertia goes up 50% between 7k and 8k!)

How much RPM will you need to spin a P-port to make 200hp? If you make 300hp at 9k, 200hp extrapolates to around 6k-ish RPM, assuming a flat torque curve. (Actually probably even lower, since peak HP by definition occurs at a lower torque than peak...) A 200hp street port is going to be WINGING IT RIGHT ON UP THERE. Bad for reliability and inertial reasons!

The kind of racing I do wants a great midrange and top end is only there to keep you from having to shift to 3rd. A peaky engine like a streetport is useless.

Street ports don't idle nearly as cool.

And finally, I'm going it to put the shut-up to everyone who says it can't be done. Because I'm doing it, and doing it with primitive equipment, not a complete machine shop and a TIG welder. (Hell, I have *access* to a TIG, and some really nice milling machines... and I am specifically not using them)

You should check out the build page if you haven't already.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

peejay's project intrigues me.

unlike most people that go out of their way to do what hasn't been done, with their V12 swaps and their so-called 10 million HP turbo setups, i have faith in him. so i'm waiting for the results of his PP project ....

don't let me down!

peejay

I forgot to add a comment about the intake velocity.

I specifically chose the intake tubing size that I did after calculating the area of the runner exits on a stock intake manifold. Those are proven good to 190-200+hp. Furthermore, as it's roughly 3/4 the area of a "traditional" (Big F'ing Huge) peripheral port, it stands to reason that it can support about 3/4 the power. So maybe the ports are *too* big..

The powerband will *mainly* be tuned by intake runner length... and I can get my intake runners shorter by about three inches (down to 11ish total length) or I can go longer by.. well, longer than I'd want to go The runners on it now should really beef up the midrange. If it falls off the power too hard, I can always sacrifice midrange for more top-end (and thus peak HP) with a new pair of intake runners, take less than a minute to swap them out. Playing with runner lengths and seeing what it does to shiftpoints and 1/4mi times/MPH is one of the things I'd like to do with this engine.

And if I feel the need to make big stupid power, hell, all of the hard work is done, I could always port them out more. But then the runner area would be expanding right at the port exit, causing a big fat low velocity area right where you don't want it. The nature of my port will try to generate a higher velocity at the port exit, maybe help fight reversion. (Note that I do NOT have a massively bellmouthed port exit like the RB housings... god, it's like they WANT air to flow backwards up the intake!)

t-von

iTrader: (8)

So how do you control the timing with the stock cap and rotor CAS? Would the stock CAS work with a PP making 250+ hp?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hmm no replys? So can you use a 13b electronic CAS for a 12A?

Edit: Never mind!

t-von

iTrader: (8)

What would be the reason your PP12a would only make 200ish hp when a 13b PP can make 330hp? Is your intake and TB set-up restrictive?

Rotor13B

I have a feeling that he is short guessing his hp so as not to be overly optimistic about power claims. If it makes 200-215 hp it's within his expectations and anything more just becomes a bonus.