Johnny_Cracker

iTrader: (1)

Okay, so the short is that I now have a manual steering box sitting around not being used. I was gonna use the upper portion of the column for the ReSpeed RP conversion but have since found out that even though the site is still active and they'll take your money, no parts will ever be shipped... which is complete bullshiit and straight up thievery.

Since it's unlikely that I'll source a kit, what's the consensus on best OEM FB steering... power, de-powered or manual. I plan on trying de-powering to feel for myself but I'm in the middle of suspension work and she's undrivable.

I'm not a crazy aggressive driver but will push the car on the back road twisties in the summer on weekends, not my daily driver. No autoX yet, but want to in the future.

Manual: The manual box looks much simpler to adjust and let's me lose the pump and some clutter but is a "slow" (17-20:1) ratio to lessen turning force required. I'm not worried about the steering effort if I get more feel and better response.

De-powered: I've heard good things about de-powered with the quick ratio (15.8:1) even though some effort will be required in parking lots, etc.

Power: Obvious ease of turning benefit, but expect I'm losing some feel and response.

Hybrid: Is it possible to swap steering gears (worm shaft assembly, piston and ball nut??) from the power to the manual box for the quick ratio in a manual package?


Any and all input is appreciated.

cpt_gloval

iTrader: (1)

My personal preference is the manual steering with a big manual steering wheel. That's how my GSL was set up. The ratio was fast enough for enjoyable autocrossing but I did tape up the wheel spokes so it didn't break my fingers if I let it spin.

I did de-powered in my GSL-SE and it made the car feel really heavy (SEs are heavy though so maybe that was also a contributor). I had power hooked up for a while on my SE and I didn't like how it felt so disconnected from the road.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i personally prefer the manual, i kind of grew up on it, so i find that the power ratio is actually too fast.

rotordogg

iTrader: (4)

I like the manual as well. However, the main problem still remains that unless you bought a brand new factory unit, there is a chance your manual gear box is worn out.

Damn, I wish RE-Speed had their **** together.

ATC529R

I am very interested in the feedback here as I am currently building a 1980 rx-7.

Right now it has manual steering I believe...and I only drove it about a mile at very low speed, but it felt heavy even with the factory 13" wheels.

2 questions: what is the "de-powered steering, what model has it and will it go on a 1980?

does anyone have any experience as to the effect of running larger wheel packages on manual steering. My current plan is 16" wheels with 16-45-205 tires and a SBC v-8. worried it may be a bit heavy and very hard to turn................but I do NOT want full power steering as I am making this thing with weight in mind.....except the v-8- that's mandatory LOL

Johnny_Cracker

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input guys, great info. Seems like the manual unit is strongly favored and might be the way to go.

I'll have to take a good look at the FSM manual steering section to see what tolerances to check out and what might need replaced. If it can be refurbed I might give it a go as time and funds permit.


Anybody with experience in tearing-down steering boxes feel free to jump in here and share what you've learned.

wankel=awesome

SBC power steering is easily adapted to the power steering box found in upscale FB's.

The common complaints of play and crappy steering arent as bad with the power boxes fom my experience. Perhaps "depowering" (unhooking and disabling the pump, filling gear with grease) makes for a slightly less crappy manual steering box, with a quicker ratio. Idk, i like the power steering from both the GSL and GSLSE. I wouldnt have an FB without one, V8 or not lol.

MosesX605

When I was running 205/60/13 A048 R-compounds on the street the problem wasn't heavy steering but bump-steering. The car would follow every groove and hump in the road. It was pretty hairy. That was on a car that had ~90,000 miles on the clock. My new car with 195/60/15 steers straight and true, with no funny business.

I'm guessing that the 45-section tires will be a handful, no matter how 'in-spec' your steering box is.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i like the manual, just because i instinctively want to turn the wheel like 45 degrees, and with the PS box the car over reacts, so IMO the ratio is just driver preference

there are basically three adjustments. two are easy to get too. it requires some playing around with, but there is basically an effort and a play adjustment, so you can have nice light tight steering or heavy and loose.. they interact, so it takes some fiddling with the nose of the car in the air.

the third adjustment takes a special tool, so its not easy, i've never touched it

possible its wheel offset too, if applicable

cpt_gloval

iTrader: (1)

My GSL had a manual rack and 15x7" wheels with 205mm tires. It had a 12a though, so it was pretty light over the front wheels. Definitely tracked ruts and grooves though.

Whizbang

comes down to preference. I like fast steering so for the FB that leaves the power box, and i like power steering so that works out wheel. Reason being is too many turns or real heavy low speed steering can allow the car to get away from you.

My rally car (fb with fc steering) runs a 2.1 turn lock to lock with power steering and i freaking love it.

XLNDRVR

iTrader: (3)

On my '85 GSL, I've had no issues with removing the nonfunctional power steering pump, filling the steering box, and connecting the inlet and outlet to close the loop. Steering efforts have never been an issue, driving or parking.

I've owned several non-power steering 7's and the depowered setup was really no more dificult to manage.

peterdaniel

its just parking thats a pain in my opinion

turbogslse

iTrader: (3)

I ran de-powered for over a year. Just lazy in replacing the power steering pump bearing that was leaking. After going back to powered, it was fun, great to drive and just about like a whole new car again. IMO, either full power steering or full manual, don't do the de-powered thing. I switched from my power to manual simply to gain the room in the bay because I'm doing a full re-do of the engine bay, but I've driven plenty of manual RX's and they're just fine. If you happen to notice the "quicker" gear ratio of the power steering versus manual, good for you, I can't tell in daily driving. I'm just too happy driving my rotary.

peterdaniel

Does anyone have a picture of an engine bay WITH power steering? Not sure what to look for
Thanks
Peter

Johnny_Cracker

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again guys...

Started cleaning all the grease off the manual box should I decide to pull the power unit. I'm gonna play around with the power box first I think since it still works and see if some routine maintenance like fluid changing and tightening the sector shaft a little makes it better. Once I'm sure that the best I can make the power steering feel is worse than what I want, THEN I'm gonna get more aggressive.

As for the rest of the steering, I pulled the linkage last year and cleaned it up. Replaced the idler arm and tie rods with greasable units, but am gonna check over the linkage for slop while I'm at it just to be sure nothing loosened up.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

My car came with power steering which was a little vague. In my attempt to clean up my engine bay and lighten my car, I removed the "power" portion if it which left the steering with too much play. I now have the Re-Speed unit which I like but almost has too much feedback as you feel everything.

Johnny_Cracker

iTrader: (1)

That's Interesting about the Respeed kit. I never considered having too much feedback... I'll have to take that into consideration should I find a Respeed kit available.

After more reading I decided to prioritize tightening up and upgrading as much of the suspension as I can before adjusting the steering box. Tearing down the drivers strut assembly I found the strut to have zero rebound! ...So "phase I" of cleaning up the front is Koni yellows, GC coilovers and camber/caster plates, bushings, and ball joints. After that I'll consider beefing up the sway bar and possibly a strut tower brace. In the rear I wanna replace the Watts links with new OEM rubber bushed units and go poly with the upper and lower control arms. Likely T3 rear coilover setup and lose the sway bar.

Once I have the suspension maxed out and balanced I'm gonna start adjusting the steering box.

I'm hopeful that somewhere along the line I'll get it to feel predictable and precise enough that I can move on to investing in more go-fast parts

craaaazzy

iTrader: (9)

how does one know if the car is de-powered or manual? my car does not have powersteering pump but not sure if it's supposed to be manual or if the previous owner removed it (GSL-SE if that makes any difference). and the worst part is that i have about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of steering wheel movement.

Whizbang

the steering box is unique for the power steer models. will have inlet / outlet on it where the manual steer box does not. Also if they didn't completely remove it there is likely the regulator valve thing.

generally GSLSE = power steering

craaaazzy

iTrader: (9)

thanks for the info. i quickly glanced at my steering box and i don't see any ports to be able to connect lines to...so i guess i have a manual box. now to research and see if i can get find info on how to remove the play in it.

i wish someone would come up and make an respeed replacement though.

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

This ^ ^ ^

Either full power or manual w/ 15" steer wheel. Don't depower the power column. Swap for manual or R&P from a Jetta or a used Re-speed. My first FB was full manual - i had no problems I learned how to drive on that car. 2nd car was PS, which i de-powered. Dumb. 3rd FB was de-powered, also dumb.

You can tell if you have a power column because the box will say "Power Steering Unit" on a fancy riveted plate, with hookups for fluid send/return lines.

Power steering is great for leaking and needing rebuilds.

If your steering has slop - there is a slop adjustment screw on the top of the column box. Get a buddy, jack the front of the car so the wheels are off the ground. Loosen the lock nut, have buddy tighten the bolt with a flat-head screwdriver little bit at a time and move steering wheel left and right while buddy watches the wheels. As soon as you get immediate steering response, do your best to tighten the lock nut while not turning the center bolt.

Keep in mind that although the center steering range will tighten up, the extremes will be MORE tight because those gears havent worn down as much.

Johnny_Cracker

iTrader: (1)

ioTus what's this Jetta RP swap you speak of? ...must search for more on this.

Somehow I've managed to miss this sifting thru steering threads.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

I have a more or less new manual box in my 'SE...I've loved it until recently having upgraded wheels to 15x7, and having dislocated a shoulder...I was shocked at the increase of slow speed/stop steering effort with the slightly larger/wider tires...It's been a few years since the dislocation, but it's still not better, and I think I just tear the **** out of it on an almost daily basis all summer when I drive the 7. I HATE the giant stock trucker wheel, but because of my shoulder, haven't even considered a smaller steering wheel. I do have two parts SE's that do both have power steering, but do both also have ~140-160k miles on the clock and haven't run in years...SO, I've got a few questions...Do the power boxes wear out as quickly as the manual ones? Any hope these old power boxes would be as good as or better than my current low mileage manual box? I mean, I wouldn't expect a manual box to be slop free with ~140k miles on it, but I have NO experience with the power ones, and can't drive these cars to find out the box's condidtion. I'm also a little tepid in considering powered steering...I never thought I'd want it before, and have never driven a fb with it...

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

The Jetta RP is a full custom fab job. I've only heard of the old school RX heads having done it, never seen it personally. Nearly no info on this out there, and honestly I wouldn't even consider attempting the swap.

We need Re-Speed back !!