I think this is probably the best place to ask the question....
I'm looking at a first generation RX-7 that appears to be in excellent condition. It's a 12a, all original, and very much like the first RX-7 I had many years ago. So, to my question....

How many people here are still running on their original, un-rebuilt, engine? I'm wondering what the longevity of the little Wankle may really be. Anybody here over 200k miles, ALL ORIGINAL? Or at least, w/ minimal modifications. What is the life expectancy of the apex seals, assuming the engine is properly oiled at all times? How about the transmission? What can I expect of it?

And, I'm not planning to race the car, so much as DRIVE it.

thanks!
Jonathan

 

12a's last a long time. there has been a few documented over 300k miles and one i think (dont quote me on it) broke over 400k miles. I have two cars both with original engines and most of the people i know with 1st gens have original engines. upgrade to a front mound oil cooler from an fc/gsl-se/78-82 first gen and upgrade the ignition if you want reliability/mpg mods. that and rebuild the carb, carbs after 30 years of use tend to be fussy and need a good cleaning/rebuild.

 

Mine is a completely stock '85 with 138.000 kilometers and never been rebuild. I only use it in the spring/summer so it stands still at least 5 to 6 months a year. Always starts with the first try

But it all comes down by the maintanance done on the car and how the previous owner treated it.

 

ive seen one with 300+k on it. at the dealership we sold rebuilt engines, and we had to get the vin and mileage for the warranty, and most of the cars we sold engines to were between 80-130k miles.

overheating is the most common form of rotary death in a 1st gen. followed by a failed apex seal.

 

If the car has been well cared for and poperly maintained it should be fairly obvious by its appearance and operation. In such condition, you should expect well over 100K miles of relaible operation. However, old cars can and do fail in a varity of ways for no apparent reason sometimes. You just go with the flow and keep a tool box within reach.

How many owners a vehicle has had, and their ages can be a good general indicator of what kind of life it's had too. You say it's still pretty original? That to me, is a good indicator. Nothing wrong with an owner wanting to modify their car, but to me, it also suggests they like to have fun and play hard with their toys.

 

i should say that an 80-130k engine life means that if the car is running, maybe someone replaced it already.

i should also say that having worked at dealerships for 10 years, i have seen people do really strange things to cars. even brand new ones.

 

I'm still running mine all original, 81K and counting. Doesn't add much to the questions, but it is almost bone stock and runs like a top. I will be posting a thread with my findings about the overheating issue soon (keeping track with a water temp gauge and oil temp gauge, should be interesting).

I'd say go for the car, mine was completely original when I bought it and I've only done a few minor mods to it to help it be more comfortable and user-friendly.

 

Mine has over 150,000 had it for 5 years. Has plenty of power and compression... i daily it

 

er, any reason you didn't just STATE the mileage on the car in question??
Why have us throw around numbers? tell us what you have!

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

152k here. Runs great.

13b though, so you would expect greatness.

 

thanks for all the replies! I hope there are more.

This car is a 12a, clearly has the original paint, and the interior is very nice. Looks like there may be a bit of fading around the vinyl in the back (the wheel well covering side things on either side of the spare tire...you know, the part that houses the rear speakers). The rest of the interior is spotless. Again, I realize the car is 27ish years old (wish I still was!)

The car has 70,xxx miles on it. Original everything, from what I can gather. Manual, which is what I want.

So, more questions....how hard to install an A/C? This car doesn't have A/C. What do you think installing it would cost? In the technical department, I know enough to be slightly dangerous, but I consider myself a decent learner.

What else should I be looking for if I'm considering this car?
thanks!

 

The original air conditioning was barely adequate in hot Climates. It was designed for R12 Refrigerant, now more expensive and less available. You may locate the original components, but plan carefully. If you intend to use more common R-134a Refrigerant, the cooling performance will be less. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise; it is a fact of physics. Thus for the hot climates you may elect to upgrade components for proper operation with R-134a. A specialty business can provide specific recommendation.

 

My gsl-se although a 13b it just rolled over 118,000 with no issues runs smooth and still pulls like a champ!

 

None of the cars came to the US with A/C. It was a dealer add on after entering one of our ports. The controls on your dash should be there and the wiring, but you'd need the compressor, evaporator and hoses and such. Generally, most all the GS model 7's got air and only some of S models. Is this car an S model? Do you know the difference? The model will affect the value and desireability of the car.

Another thing that may be useful is knowing if you have an early build 79 or not. 1st year cars can be sub-divided into Early / Mid / Late production vehicles, all 79 model year. Early and Mid production cars built in 78 had a different "always on" fan/AC switch. The switch changed on the later cars where it had seperate fan speed and A/C functions on the same swich.

 

2012-27=1985, so if it has no AC then its most likely an S model?

in 1985 there are two AC systems

there is the factory installed Nippon Denso system. ALL the US delivered GSL-SE's have it, and the 84-85 GSL WITH power steering. outside of these its very rare, there is a tax on AC systems so even to this day most mazda's get the ac installed at the port. the ND system can be ID'ed by the ND compressor and it uses pipes, while the sanden system uses hoses.

the second system is the port installed "sanden" system. its installed on 90+% of all the 81-85 S,GS and GSL's. (the 79-80 cars aren't as standardized). it uses hoses instead of pipes, sanden compressor, etc etc.

i would suggest you find a complete system from either someone on the forum or a junkyard, as the two systems do not share ANY parts, so mixing and matching isn't an option.

 

This does not match my recollection. Did you work at the port? If airconditioning was installed at the port who paid to install it? As a dealer I do not recall seeing this charge, nor the large labor force that would have been required; several hours each car. The kits were available, but cars that came to me with air conditioning appeared to have had it installed in Japan. I am interested to know if that is not accurate.

 

In regards to the car I'm looking at, it is a 'S' model, 1985. I realize it's not the most desirable of the early RX-7's, but it is nearly identical to MY original RX-7...so it has a bit of appeal for me in that regard.

That said, what all should I be on the look out for as far as the car is concerned in general? It has a bit over 70,000 miles, and it certainly appears to be all original.

On the A/C questions....would I be able to use all new components except for the part under the dash? (What is that .... the condenser?)

 

No, never worked for Mazda or any port nor any dealer. Actually, my knowledge of this particular bit of Rx triva is a product of this forum. It has been discussed a few times in the past, where other members who do/did claim to have first hand knowledge of this process, were very adamant to how it worked.

So you were a dealer back in the day? I'd think you would know the details of the actual process. Did you specify which cars got A/C? What about other options? I ordered my car in the spring of 79. I only specified I wanted a Sunrise Red car with a 5 speed. I had no choice on any options what-so ever. I took delivery Aug 15th of 79 and it wasn't untill then that I knew what kind of interior or options it had. To me, at that time it seemed strange that the factory was building and sending what it wanted over and the public was just supposed to be happy with what was available. In 79, the cars came as either S or GS models.

As I know, S- models came standard with 2 spoke steering wheels, a 4 speed and steel rims w/165 tires (bridgestone model 203's I believe) Options on an S included body moldings, aluminum rims and A/C.

GS models came standard with the body moldings and aluminum waffels w/185 Briggie's (model 106's) and had a 4 spoke steering wheel, 5 speed, rear sway bar, electric hatch release and intermittent wipers. Options for a GS included a sunroof, A/C and the 3 sp automatic.

Fast forward many years later, and again I was surprised when forum members explained that A/C was installed at the port and/or the dealership. Could the A/C have been supplied & shipped from the factory with the car, but not installed until after entry, due to some US customs or shipping or EPA regulations? Or like J9FD3s says above, a tax of some sort on A/C systems. So Mazda supplies the system but does not install it until after the car goes through the gate. Since this car is an 85, I'm much more in the dark to specifics. I'm an SA guy.

 

i have the part under the dash, still installed in my 85. i dont want it there, nor do i need it. I could let it go cheap if its useable.

 

CS,
Thanks for the offer. From what I'm gathering, there were two different models of A/C for these cars and parts are not necessarily interchangeable (who'd thunk it?!) So, I may take you up on the offer.

Of course, I'd need to purchase the car first....or at least COMMIT to it.

 

and....what would YOU pay for a 1st gen RX-7 w/ a 12a?

Is that a loaded question, or what?

 

its pretty simple really, the port STILL installs the A/C, and for the Rx7's we had 2 parts books, one for the port installed AC and one for the factory system. most cars are even labeled as port installed or not. the A/C set that was available for install at the dealerships was the port installed one.

what happens is that Mazda USA orders the cars from Mazda Japan with no A/C, or just the evaporator, and Mazda USA puts the A/C in themselves, THEN the car gets sold to the dealership, so to the dealer it just appears as if they ordered A/C and got A/C.

some of the newer cars, like the Rx8 get the appearance packages and things installed at the port too. i don't know about the 1st gens, but the modern cars take about 30 minutes to have ac put in

i guess its cheaper than the import duties on a car with a/c?

 

So, you're suggesting that the RX-7 S might have the evaporator, and no other parts? To ask a newbie question, is the evaporator the part under the dash? Correct?

 

well, the answer is no idea.

ive had 5:

1983 gs needed restored, came with extra 12a and a **** ton of parts. Cost: traded a yz125

1984 gs bought for parts came running and with a spare junk 12a and a spare 13b witch had all good parts - $400

1985 s model clean car, sat for 11 years, took me 5 hours to get it running from parts frim the 84 - $500

1982 gsl - pretty good condiditon, fully loaded everything worked all leather interior and a fresh repaint. no reverse - $500 put a trans in it from the 84 and sold it for $1500 in excellent running condition, except some rust

1985 gsl- 90k miles, sterling carb, rb exhaust minus the muffler (had fart can), mint interior, no rust, ran like crap and needed fender and bumper replaced (came with fender and bumper) Fixed it up and got it running good and safe for an additional $200 - purchase price - $1300.

so it depends. i never buy anything in excellent running condition, the price reflects greatly lol

 

i also have the part that goes infront of the rad, the little round can, and the lines i think. they might of gotten trashed