Oil Temp
11-02-06, 04:35 PM
#1
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Oil Temp
Ok..got a question. Well actually 2. First, I'm showing a 220F oil temp at the oil filter adapter on top of the 12A. I have been reading that 250F at the pan is hot. Is 220 where I am getting my readings ok or do I need to add another oil cooler to get them a little lower? Second, if I need to add another cooler, which oil line is which on the 12A? What is the the fitting closer to the front, is it inlet or outlet? I already have a 96 plate oil cooler with 11" fan under the package tray on a bug. If 220 is fine, I wont bother. Any help greatly appreciated!!!!!
11-02-06, 06:15 PM
#2
If you can find the space, a 2nd gen oil cooler is the best route to go. They are more durable than the 1st gens due to the difference in the fittings. The front engine cover is the out to the cooler, the banjo bolt at the bottom of the rear iron is the return from the cooler.
If you manage to mount the 2nd gen cooler, but cannot get good air flow over it, add a row of small electric fans to aid cooling.
Rotorbugs kick ***.
If you manage to mount the 2nd gen cooler, but cannot get good air flow over it, add a row of small electric fans to aid cooling.
Rotorbugs kick ***.
11-02-06, 09:45 PM
#4
FB+FC=F-ME
It kinda depends......
Taking the reading from the pan will give you a maximum oil temp,that way youll know if you ever exceed the "high" point for oil temps.
Taking the reading from the pedestal or banjo fitting will give you the lowest reading(immediately after the cooler) so youll know how well the cooler(s) is working and that the oil going into the engine is within acceptable temps.
I run my temp sender off the pedestal,after my dual coolers. A TII oil cooler and a half-sized Turbo300ZX oil cooler off to the side,plumbed in series.In the dead of summer,the highest temp Ive seen going into the engine has been about 200*F.....It usually hangs around 180-190*F.
Taking the reading from the pan will give you a maximum oil temp,that way youll know if you ever exceed the "high" point for oil temps.
Taking the reading from the pedestal or banjo fitting will give you the lowest reading(immediately after the cooler) so youll know how well the cooler(s) is working and that the oil going into the engine is within acceptable temps.
I run my temp sender off the pedestal,after my dual coolers. A TII oil cooler and a half-sized Turbo300ZX oil cooler off to the side,plumbed in series.In the dead of summer,the highest temp Ive seen going into the engine has been about 200*F.....It usually hangs around 180-190*F.
11-03-06, 05:43 PM
#7
The beehive would be simpler and is reliable, to a certain point/mileage factor. It would be less weight and plumbing also. Installing the fmoc would be more of a trial and error exercise to achieve the needed cooling efficiency. Oil temps would need to monitored until one is satisfied with the operating temps.
Since the stock fmoc is cooled from free due to vehicle speed, that would be the best way to install it. But who wants to mount it in the front of the vehicle and run that long of oil lines? Running an air duct through the entire body to the rear, where the cooler would most like be mounted, makes as little sense as running oil lines to the front.
That leave 2 options, imho,. Duct the cooler for an outside free air source that will increase with vehicle speed, or add fans and shielding. Any other suggestions past these would require me seeing the vehicle and hands ons play time.
Since the stock fmoc is cooled from free due to vehicle speed, that would be the best way to install it. But who wants to mount it in the front of the vehicle and run that long of oil lines? Running an air duct through the entire body to the rear, where the cooler would most like be mounted, makes as little sense as running oil lines to the front.
That leave 2 options, imho,. Duct the cooler for an outside free air source that will increase with vehicle speed, or add fans and shielding. Any other suggestions past these would require me seeing the vehicle and hands ons play time.
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11-03-06, 06:09 PM
#8
Those are the reasons why I was leaning toward the beehive. Maintainance seems to be the only real issue with them. Just swap out all the o-rings and it will be good as new. The engine it's going on will have slightly modified stock ports for best low RPM power so if the beehive's achiles heel is simply engine power output, I don't see it as a problem here.
It'll be hard to monitor oil temps without easy access to the 'cooled' side of the oil flow, but it's my understanding that oil temps are usually within 10 degrees of water temps. Electric water temp senders and guages are simple enough to hook up.
Everybody does a watercooled swap into VWs differently. Most try to overbuild in some areas and ignore other equally important areas. The bottom line is if it runs, drives and does what the owner wants it to do, who cares how it got there, right? Well my intention is to build an ultra simple and reliable project that will overcome the shortcomings of ACVWs and make me happy. I think that's what's important.
It'll be hard to monitor oil temps without easy access to the 'cooled' side of the oil flow, but it's my understanding that oil temps are usually within 10 degrees of water temps. Electric water temp senders and guages are simple enough to hook up.
Everybody does a watercooled swap into VWs differently. Most try to overbuild in some areas and ignore other equally important areas. The bottom line is if it runs, drives and does what the owner wants it to do, who cares how it got there, right? Well my intention is to build an ultra simple and reliable project that will overcome the shortcomings of ACVWs and make me happy. I think that's what's important.
11-03-06, 06:17 PM
#9
Honestly, the biggest problem with the beehive is the degradation of the dowel pin o-rings. This usually takes 100k miles at a minumum for a dowel pin leak to occur. How many rebuilds run that far before other issues develope, very few is my guess. I would probably go with the beehive too just for the simplicity of the install.
11-03-06, 06:23 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Jeff20B
It'll be hard to monitor oil temps without easy access to the 'cooled' side of the oil flow, but it's my understanding that oil temps are usually within 10 degrees of water temps.
Originally Posted by Jeff20B
Electric water temp senders and guages are simple enough to hook up.
Yes, electrical gauges are easier to install BUT mechanical is much more accurate since electrical gauges will only give you a range.
11-03-06, 06:23 PM
#11
Honestly, the biggest problem with the beehive is the degradation of the dowel pin o-rings. This usually takes 100k miles at a minumum for a dowel pin leak to occur. How many rebuilds run that far before other issues develope, very few is my guess. I would probably go with the beehive too just for the simplicity of the install.
Last edited by Jeff20B; 11-03-06 at 06:29 PM.
11-03-06, 06:33 PM
#12
I've got a set of electric guages. The temp sender is small and sits in an adaptor which fits in the choke switch hole on cast iron waterpump housings. I'd prefer to use an FC aluminum waterpump to save a little weight. I wonder how hoard it would be to use the EFI temp sender on those? I'm sure the range would be way off. Maybe I can find an adaptor for the smaller diameter hole in the FC waterpump?
11-05-06, 04:28 PM
#13
It turns out I don't need to worry about finding an adaptor.
The temp sender is 1/8th NPT! That means it should be compatible with the water tube hole. Just extract the tube and cut some threads. The hole is slightly larger than 21/64 so if the sender bottoms out before the threads tighten up, I can step up to 1/4" NPT and use an adaptor leaving the EFI sender in place. That means easier EFI in the future, and compatability with my current guages now.
Next step is oil pressure. No need to worry about oil temp with a beehive.
The temp sender is 1/8th NPT! That means it should be compatible with the water tube hole. Just extract the tube and cut some threads. The hole is slightly larger than 21/64 so if the sender bottoms out before the threads tighten up, I can step up to 1/4" NPT and use an adaptor leaving the EFI sender in place. That means easier EFI in the future, and compatability with my current guages now.
Next step is oil pressure. No need to worry about oil temp with a beehive.
11-05-06, 10:56 PM
#14
Boosted 7
220, wow I have a second gen oil cooler, and second gen Rad on my 12a and when cruising on the highway my oil temp is 140-145, in stop and go traffic it will get up to 160-170 max. 220 seems awefully high
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