Eriks85Rx7

Ok OIL COOLING is the issue I am going to modify my 12A motor so it will produce around 165-200rwhp .

The stock beehive cooler sucks. I bought a FMOC from a member on here. I have a rebuilt 12A in my garage but I am unsure on how to hook up the FMOC to it. I have the cooler and the cooler has two Hoses a long one that has a banjo bolt on the end of it and the shorter hose just looks like it screws onto something. I cannot find where these connect to the engine. Can someone post pictures of their FMOC and how it hooks up?

The OMP

I have done some research and it appears the 12A omp is not really good for 200hp and that the GSL-SE is a direct bolt on that produces quite a bit more oil than the 12A. I looked at MAzdatrix and it appears they dont sell a GSL-SE pump. They have the 13b omp listed as 84-88 but the 2nd gen omps won't go on a 12a without modification. Who sells GSL-SE omps?

btw I read the (HOW TO BUILD A HIGh OUTPUT 12A) but they never really came to a conclusion on if a GSL-SE pump bolts on and who sells it.

kgray

There are 2 hard lines that run to the beehive. These get removed, and the banjo bolt hose goes about under the oil filter pedestal. the short hose connects to the front cover where the long hardline was.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Short hose:


Long hose:


Also, If you plan on going for 165-200WHP, how are you going to get there? If you run a different carburetor you will have to modify the linkage for the OMP to the new carburetor and find a way to route the oil hoses into it. Or you can just premix, which is what most of us do on here anyways.

Rogue_Wulff

The FMOC hoses hook to the front cover, where the hard line to the beehive is connected, and the return (one with the banjo bolt) goes into the rear iron, near the bottom. There is a short bolt in the rear iron, you remove that to install the banjo bolt connection.
You will also need a different oil filter adapter, to put in place of the beehive.

Eriks85Rx7

Im planning on doing this via turbo. I see where the Long hose connects I went and looked again on my motor and I see where it bolts up but I don't see where the short one goes. I think I found where it goes on the front cover but its female to female and doesnt screw on.. Am I missing an adapter? I can deal with modifying the linkage. Can you premix with a turbo? Won't this cause detonation?

I missed it but the short hose pic didnt show

I really wish i had my digi cam, The engine is not a 83-85 12a Its a 1979 12a that was rebuilt so there is no bee hive on it right now ( its a shortblock sitting in my garage). My beehive is on my 84-85 12a that is in my car right now. Im swapping in the 79 SP 12A for the 85 and when I do i plan on running a fmoc not the beehive.

Eriks85Rx7

I see... Arggh im missing an adapter... Where can i get the adapter for the front cover hose? Is this an adapter I can pick up at lowes?

Rogue_Wulff

The adapter you are talking about is used whether it has a FMOC or beehive.

Eriks85Rx7

ah good so I could take the one off my old 12a and use it for my fmoc?

dayton

yes... for some reason i seem to remember changing a metal line that runs from the passenger side of the car around the fire wall... it was easier to do this while the motor was out of the car.... i want to say it had some thing to do with coolant line that ran to the beehive or something... check it out, might be something to look into be fore you get started... that way you have all the parts on hand before you take it allapart...g/l

Eriks85Rx7

would it be safe to run a 12A omp and premix in a boosted applicaton? Would this cause detonation?

steve84GS TII

Thats what I would do.
The SE OMP is a 4 line unit made for EFI engines.Its not really a bolt on for the 12A engine.
Your HP goals arent too extreme and the stock OMP system is known to be pretty robust.Im still running stock OMP settings and output on my S5 engine,which has been making about 300hp for 6+ years.
If you run premix in addition to the OMP,just go lightly and use a good synthetic premix oil for the best protection.Too much oil can hurt HP and too much premix can lower the octane of the fuel.Plus,if you run both OMP and Premix,and find yourself without premix oil somewhere,you wont be stranded since the OMP is still up and running.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

I read on here somewhere that the 4 line OMP will not flow as much as the 2 line will.

Eriks85Rx7

ok I know this sounds dumb but I just though of it today as i was reviewing my setup. where do oil lines hook up on the turbo? and what feeds the turbo its oil? I never really see lines running to turbos but i never really look either. I know this a dumb question but this is why im going over everything to make sure i dont run into any issues when it comes in.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

I havce heard of tapping the banjo bolt in the front cover for oil, then after the turbo, run it to the oil pan IIRC

Eriks85Rx7

Im assuming I would have to run smaller oil lines similar to the omp lines in size and they would need to be stainless steel?

steve84GS TII

Oil must be sent to the turbo under full pump pressure,its a lot different than the OMP lines.

The oil can be tapped from the oil pressure sending unit with a tee,but that will be unfiltered oil.The best way to do it is with a filter pad pedestal that taps into the oil after the filter. A high pressure line rated for high pressure,hot oil is needed,it doesnt have to be stainless.The drain must be larger diameter and should drain into the front cover near the OMP.This is better than the oilpan since its less likely to leak.Anywhere you tap into the pan will be below the oil level and subject to leaking and poor drainage since the turbo drain oil tends to be frothy.
This is basic turbo engine stuff,I hope your gonna do a lot more research before going turbo....or your gonna be in for some headaches.

Eriks85Rx7

Ok thats not a problem, I know this is why im doing research I want to do it right the first time. Could you explain the oil filter pedestal filter pad a little more?

im assuming tapping the short oil line going to the fmoc from the front cover is not good a good thing to tap? would this not provide enough pressure to make it to the turbo? Running and tapping the lines won't be hard just finding the right places will be. Once again I know this is basic turbo stuff and i probably will have some headaches but this is why Im asking questions.


are you meaning something like this so i could hook up oil lines?
http://www.mrcmfg.com/respeed/catalo...6716ef155dfb4f

steve84GS TII

The smaller,block style adaptors are just fine.You just need one oil line to feed to the top of the turbo.If you run the line from the fitting at the FMOC,there will be plenty of pressure and flow,but youll be tapping in BEFORE the oil is filtered and that it definately bad for the turbo bearings.

Heres an example of the block you can use,I have the first one listed.Just be sure you are tapping into oil AFTER the filter.On my car,I have a TII engine which has a factory turbo oil feed line built into the engine so I just use this block to plumb my oil temp gauge sending unit......
http://www.mazdatrix.com/boil3.htm

Eriks85Rx7

Ok well if the block goes under the filter, it should be filtered right? i mean it just flow up then right back down right and goes out on the side holes.

not to argue but won't the oil be filtered anyways since all the oil has to go through the filter at some point? thank you steve your helping ALOT!

steve84GS TII

All the metal shavings that wear off of the engine,are first flushed down to the pan with the oil as the engine runs.The pump picks them up along with the oil and sends it to the filter.The pump has a coarse screen to protect it from big stuff,but the oil pump must endure SOME amount of metal shavings and such,its unavoidable and its designed to handle it.
The oil and shavings are then sent to the filter where most of the particles and shavings are trapped in the filter.That way,when the oil enters the bearings and various other critical parts of the engine(like the turbo)....the oil is clean.It will become dirty and wash away more metal shavings as it drains out of the bearings and back down to the pan.But,before it gets back into the engine it will have to travel trough the pump and into the filter again,thus being cleaned,again.

Our engines have an oil cooler as well,and it is located BEFORE the oil filter,so the cooler has "dirty" oil traveling through it.But since there are no wearing/sliding/rubbing/spinning components inside the cooler,there is no issue.
Anything that wears/rubs/slides/spins must have clean cool oil running into it.That means oil that has passed through the filter and cooler on THAT pass.There are always shavings and debris in the pan because the engine is ALWAYS wearing to a degree,anytime it is running.The turbo has a very hot,very high speed bearing supporting the shaft.The turbo shaft itself can spin at over 100,000 RPMS and since it has exhaust running through it,the temps are very high.

Not all the block type pedestal adaptors have their ports on the "clean" side of the filter.Remeber,the dirty oil comes up from the bottom of the filter and enters the holes around the edges of the filter.The clean oil exits the filter from the single large hole in the center,where the filter screws on.The turbo oil supply line needs to be tapped into a port that is on the clean side of the filter.On those pedestals,one hole is the clean side and one hole is the dirty side.If the ports on those pedestals for you to install gauges and sensors are drilled/tapped only on the dirty side of the oil filter,then you shouldnt use that pedestal.
Youll have to look/ask/research before buying one.
Another reason I endorse using a turbo engine when going turbo.All this stuff has been addresed already,by the factory.