Sudox_E

Ok. I'm about to invest in a Rx-7 First Gen. Now then I know about the 12a engine is carb and the 13b is EFI. Before i go finding a Rx-7. Which model should i get? I hear alot about the 12a's and 13b's. I'm sure they both have their advantages and disadvantes.

What i'm asking is which motor should i be sure to get, to be able to get good, RELIABLE, performance from. I wont be looking to break over 200hp. But coming as close as possible would be nice.

Could you tell me what engine and mods would make for a good running 1st gen?

Thanks.

genrex

So this will be a street-driven car.. do you have emissions inspections in your area?.. out here we have emissions inspections for any car newer than 1977, which includes all RX-7s.. so that's a consideration.

Getting ~ 200 reliable hp is not a big problem, but it's that old adage: how fast do you want to go? how much $$ do you have?

I think you can go either way.. Carb or FI.. there are people here who have good opinions and experience with both.. in the end, it probably comes down to what you're comfortable with.

BTW, there's a good thread going on that topic tonight.

Manntis

Both engine types are reliable if they've had proper maintainance e.g. regular oil changes at no intervals greeater than 5,000 kms per, regular coolant flush/fill (lubrication and cooling are vital to a rotary).

If they've not had this maintainance, consider them frag grenades under your hood with the pin removed and spoon just barely on. Not lethal yet, but any minute now...

The 13B available in the 84-85 GSL-SE is widely recognized as the most bulletproof (as in trouble-free, not armoured!) rotary engine Mazda ever made, but the 12A is charming in it's simplicity and cost - it can be modified on the cheap.

The 13B only came in the GSL-SE in North America, which comes loaded with bigger brakes, a limited slip differential, glass AND metal moonroofs, seats with a quajillion adjustments, and 'premium sound system', though these usually get turfed in favour of 2002 electronics.

However, with all this and power everything, plus more sound deadening, etc. comes more weight. While the SE has 35 more stock HP it also weighs about 200 lbs more. With Electronic Gas Injection (EGI) the engine doesn't suffer from some of the choke issues plaguing the 12A.

IMHO the SE is a 'better' car, but better is relative and highly dependant on your personal tastes and automotive philosophies. Some prefer the simpler carbed 12A in the lighter chassis for a myriad of reasons, though swapping in the SE suspension, brakes, etc. is a common mod.

Sudox_E

I live in virgina. We have no emissions testing here. So the rx-7 with the 13b weighs more? But what it has extra in weight, can it be made up for in horsepower? I just want to know if i put about 2k under the hood of either 12a or 13b. Where would i stand on either of them? I would definitly like it about the 175hp mark.

Thanks for all the help. I'm still learning.

Felix Wankel

The GSL-SE would be easier. If you can find one.

Sudox_E

Are the GSL-SE's very hard to find? If i can't find one of those whats the next best thing? Does it matter? Cause i know that all the others had the same engine type in. But some other options were different. What model had some good options?

82transam

iTrader: (18)

GSL-SE's are relatively rare. If you can't find a SE then try to find a 84 or 85 GSL. That has limited slip and disk brakes in the back. If you can find a decent SE then try to grab it, getting 175hp out of a SE is much easier than the 12a models.

Manntis

No, none of the others had the same type engine. All North American RX-7's of the 1st generation had 100 HP 12A engines except the GSL-SE, which had the fuel injected 13B.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

come on manntis be fair, us 12a guys have 101hp not a measly 100hp. sheesh

Manntis

It varies between 100-105 HP depending on State or Country - I THINK it was the Cali ones that only had 100hp...

Sudox_E

SO if i cant find a GSL-SE... what year/model should i try to get? What has the best options?

Rx7carl

GSL-SE 84-85 only. Rarest 1st gen. 13B EFI, 6 port motor, 135hp stock 1.3L engine, comes with all the bells and whistles (leather,ps,pw,rear wiper/washer), also biggest 4 wheel disc brakes availible, 4x100mm bolt pattern (very comon size for aftermarket wheels).
83-85 GSL. 12A, 4 port, carb, 101-105hp stock, 4 wheel disc brakes (smaller than SE's), options vary (my 85 has everything an SE has).
Starting with a bigger motor, an SE naturally has more hp potential, but 12A stuff tends to be a bit cheaper and more availible ( I'm talking aftermarket performance parts). In reality you need to describe your application to help us steer you in the right direction. i.e.
Daily driver only? Hot rod? Drag? Autox? Road race? Rally? Combination of some or all of these?
Oh and most important......BUDGET!

I probably shouldnt do this here, LOL, but you should also go to www.mazspeed.com forums. Theres alot of 1st gen knoweledge there. It's a 1st gen only site!

Felix Wankel

4x114.3, not 4x100. Thats a compact FWD pattern.

Rx7carl

Whoops, my bad sorry. So thats equal to 4.25" correct?

IT7chris

Close, You can make it fit but it will usually cause you more problems than its worth. Had a 2g with the 4 lug. had mustang wheels on it. didnt work too well.

Sudox_E

It would be my daily driver. I want something that definitly has to be reliable. I rode in my friend's new 85 GS. He's the 2nd owner. It was owned by a woman before and has a relativly new clutch in it. He can chirp freakin 3rd gear easily. Is that a common thing in these light rx-7s? It also would like wig out when he would try to slow down a few times. Is it because its pretty cold and the carb isnt warmed up? Or mabey it needs a tune up? I down wanna get a car that is gonna do that everyday.

Sudox_E

Oh yea. if i do get one, i'd sell my other car and get a street ported rebuilt motor for the car. So i'm sure that would help with reliability alot.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Any car with a carb will do thta when its cold. It shouldn't do it all the time though.

Rx7carl

Well I can only speak about 12A carb'd cars cause thats all Ive ever had. They are VERY reliable and smooth running with minimal maintinence. Of course when you buy a used car you may have to work on it to get it up to an accepable condition. But thats no different than any other used car. SO you said reliable daily driver. Ok, cool, more info? stoplight drag race hot rod? part time racer? just a daily driver? you want hp? Milage? Help me out here my man! Big budget? no budget? low budget?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

According to Mazda Rx-7 (by Matras) all 12A's had 100 HP up to 1984. It jumped to 101 for '84 and '85.

Sudox E~
Dude, if all you want is 175 HP, and you really don't care which engine/model car you get, then definitely hold out and get the SE. It will be a lot easier, and [b]possibly[/i] cheaper to achieve that mark - even with the stock FI system in tact. Since you said emissions is not an issue for you, it makes your task that much simpler.

Manntis

Did they include Canadian models in that 'all' RX-7s? In my experience American authors tend to assume anything in Canada is exactly like the American version, though 9 times out of 10 that's incorrect.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i think so, but i'm not sure ... i'll have to go and check - i'll get back to you on it.