Need Serious Answers Fast!!
09-12-01, 08:23 PM
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Need Serious Answers Fast!!
Ok guys I really need your help!
If you've read my previous posts you already know that the engine in my 84 GSL SE let go a week ago yesterday.
I spent the last two days dismantling the engine and now im ready to take the corps to a local engine builder/ machinist that has a pretty good reputation in the Delaware area.
I made the mistake of telling him what I'm prepared to spend on the engine. ($3500)
Please dont lose ALL respect for me for this,... but I really have no clue what he is planning to do.
Or at least it is very vague, however, I remind you that he does in fact have a good rep.
So,...after a solid 30 min rant from one of my friends on how I am opening the door to get screwed, not to mention SCARING the hell out of me!, i am retreating to you guys. HELP!
Heres basically what I told him. I want this to be the strongest stock and street legal Rx7 in the state!
I also want to keep the Major components original, everything else is fair game!
I do agree with my friend now,...after the fact that I should tell this guy what i want,...exactly what i want,...him to do.
Heres the problem,... im lost. embarrasing but true.
I am to bring him the engine tomorrow at 8:30am. However, i would truly like to hear from you guys first. so I am going to postpone dropping it off. at least for a few hours.
Additionally, I truly need your help here! If it is too much to write. I will be happy to call or give you a number to contact me.
I also will be glued to the comp for the next couple of hours.
THANK YOU,
Embiber (Steve)
If you've read my previous posts you already know that the engine in my 84 GSL SE let go a week ago yesterday.
I spent the last two days dismantling the engine and now im ready to take the corps to a local engine builder/ machinist that has a pretty good reputation in the Delaware area.
I made the mistake of telling him what I'm prepared to spend on the engine. ($3500)
Please dont lose ALL respect for me for this,... but I really have no clue what he is planning to do.
Or at least it is very vague, however, I remind you that he does in fact have a good rep.
So,...after a solid 30 min rant from one of my friends on how I am opening the door to get screwed, not to mention SCARING the hell out of me!, i am retreating to you guys. HELP!
Heres basically what I told him. I want this to be the strongest stock and street legal Rx7 in the state!
I also want to keep the Major components original, everything else is fair game!
I do agree with my friend now,...after the fact that I should tell this guy what i want,...exactly what i want,...him to do.
Heres the problem,... im lost. embarrasing but true.
I am to bring him the engine tomorrow at 8:30am. However, i would truly like to hear from you guys first. so I am going to postpone dropping it off. at least for a few hours.
Additionally, I truly need your help here! If it is too much to write. I will be happy to call or give you a number to contact me.
I also will be glued to the comp for the next couple of hours.
THANK YOU,
Embiber (Steve)
09-12-01, 08:57 PM
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Easy, Son...
You say your man has a good rep, so relax. Seven guys I've met have all been good to me, and I haven't heard or seen much critical except about money-mongering dealers.
Tell you what....I'll give you my engine builder's name and number, you call him and ask him what he thinks. Name is Keith Wise, his shops in Newark, Ohio...Phone: (740) 345-4930, or (740) 345-2639. He builds drag and road race engines and I know of a lot of Seven guys who like and trust him. Talkin' money ain't necessarily a bad thing...Sometimes it best to be up front.
Oh, tell Keith you talked to Denny from Delaware, Ohio....
Best to yuh,
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib...
You say your man has a good rep, so relax. Seven guys I've met have all been good to me, and I haven't heard or seen much critical except about money-mongering dealers.
Tell you what....I'll give you my engine builder's name and number, you call him and ask him what he thinks. Name is Keith Wise, his shops in Newark, Ohio...Phone: (740) 345-4930, or (740) 345-2639. He builds drag and road race engines and I know of a lot of Seven guys who like and trust him. Talkin' money ain't necessarily a bad thing...Sometimes it best to be up front.
Oh, tell Keith you talked to Denny from Delaware, Ohio....
Best to yuh,
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib...
09-12-01, 09:39 PM
#3
Right near Malloy
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Localish Shops.
Theres two shops I know of that aren't too far from you.
Peter Farrel Supercars and Rotary Performance.
Check www.mscw.com for links. Both shops are in Virginia, although I have not been to either of them. PFS is well known for their 3rd gens and have had several cars featured in articles in "Road and track", "GrassRoots Motorsports", and a very recent one in "Car and Driver".
Check them out.
Peter Farrel Supercars and Rotary Performance.
Check www.mscw.com for links. Both shops are in Virginia, although I have not been to either of them. PFS is well known for their 3rd gens and have had several cars featured in articles in "Road and track", "GrassRoots Motorsports", and a very recent one in "Car and Driver".
Check them out.
09-13-01, 11:13 AM
#5
Embiber,
thanks for the PM! I haven't had the chance to keep an eye on the postings this week, so your message was forwarded to me and here I am.
With that kind of budget, you can do an aweful lot. But unfortunately a stock 6-port cannot be modded very much unless you get rid of the EGI and stock exhaust.
So you must ask, what is your definition of stock?
And please don't rush. You have a steep learning curve here, but thankfully the guys/gals on the Forum have done just about every tweak imaginable. For better and for worse.
Do you intend to keep the stock exhaust? For many of us, "stock" would mean keeping the car smog legal. What are the smog requirements for Deleware? But if you don't open the exhaust with (preferably) headers, high flow cat and Primaflow muffler, then intake or porting mods are relatively useless.
Define what you need/want/must have.
I'm assuming that you RX is primarily a Street car, and that you are not out racing the local ricers on the weekends.
There are engine mods that could help out a ton with performance without necessarily increasing max HP. Porting and such will increase PEAK HP, but you will loose bottom end Torque, which you may miss on a street driven car (you lengthen the intake timing with porting, but lose out on the compression phase). Also keep the Aux. Port Actuators. These help out low end, but many of the folks here like to get rid of them since they spend most of there time in the high RPM range.
Get an aluminum flywheel and have the engine built with the lightened rotors. These mod will not effect smog nor HP but WILL help the engine wind up real fast. You will think that you increased HP just with these mods!!
The GSLSE is heavier up front and heavier overall than other 1st gen RX7s. I don't know how much they cost, but RacingBeat.com has the aluminum side housing that are half the weight of the steel side housings. Imagine an all aluminum block?
Intake options on a stock -SE are limited. K&N filter is a no brainer. The cone type might be better than the stock air-box replaced type, but might not be smog leagal. You could go with an aftermarket ECU, but that'll take a good chuck of the budget you mention. Bigger HP gains are found by porting the intake and switching to a Carb. Delrotto is the carb of choice, but no longer manufactured. Holley's are fickle with 6-port due to variations in vaccum signals. Webber's are great but expensive and need attension like a women. But it doesn't sound like you want Carbs. They are best for peak HP, but the EGI will likely make you the most happy for the street. This will get me flamed, but no carb will ever compare to the fuel mapping that is programmed in a fuel injected system for best throughout the powerband total aggregate HP. No modern car has a Carb.
This is just one man's opinion. You will certainly hear others. Listen to them all. You'll be confused with overload at first. But given enough time to think it over. You'll settle into what you want. That's why it is important for you to know first, what it is that you want out of the car.
If it is good all around performance, streetability, nice startup on cold mornings, fuel economy, no worries from the law, then go with stock, but lighter components. You'll be surprised how nice a fresh engine will perform. While you are at it, replace the critical sensors on the EGI. Oxygen (O2) and Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). There was a discussion last month on these sensors. Also get some good brake pads, and the stickiest tires you can find. Go/Stop/Turn are all limited by how well the tires hold the road.
Good luck/have fun!
thanks for the PM! I haven't had the chance to keep an eye on the postings this week, so your message was forwarded to me and here I am.
With that kind of budget, you can do an aweful lot. But unfortunately a stock 6-port cannot be modded very much unless you get rid of the EGI and stock exhaust.
So you must ask, what is your definition of stock?
And please don't rush. You have a steep learning curve here, but thankfully the guys/gals on the Forum have done just about every tweak imaginable. For better and for worse.
Do you intend to keep the stock exhaust? For many of us, "stock" would mean keeping the car smog legal. What are the smog requirements for Deleware? But if you don't open the exhaust with (preferably) headers, high flow cat and Primaflow muffler, then intake or porting mods are relatively useless.
Define what you need/want/must have.
I'm assuming that you RX is primarily a Street car, and that you are not out racing the local ricers on the weekends.
There are engine mods that could help out a ton with performance without necessarily increasing max HP. Porting and such will increase PEAK HP, but you will loose bottom end Torque, which you may miss on a street driven car (you lengthen the intake timing with porting, but lose out on the compression phase). Also keep the Aux. Port Actuators. These help out low end, but many of the folks here like to get rid of them since they spend most of there time in the high RPM range.
Get an aluminum flywheel and have the engine built with the lightened rotors. These mod will not effect smog nor HP but WILL help the engine wind up real fast. You will think that you increased HP just with these mods!!
The GSLSE is heavier up front and heavier overall than other 1st gen RX7s. I don't know how much they cost, but RacingBeat.com has the aluminum side housing that are half the weight of the steel side housings. Imagine an all aluminum block?
Intake options on a stock -SE are limited. K&N filter is a no brainer. The cone type might be better than the stock air-box replaced type, but might not be smog leagal. You could go with an aftermarket ECU, but that'll take a good chuck of the budget you mention. Bigger HP gains are found by porting the intake and switching to a Carb. Delrotto is the carb of choice, but no longer manufactured. Holley's are fickle with 6-port due to variations in vaccum signals. Webber's are great but expensive and need attension like a women. But it doesn't sound like you want Carbs. They are best for peak HP, but the EGI will likely make you the most happy for the street. This will get me flamed, but no carb will ever compare to the fuel mapping that is programmed in a fuel injected system for best throughout the powerband total aggregate HP. No modern car has a Carb.
This is just one man's opinion. You will certainly hear others. Listen to them all. You'll be confused with overload at first. But given enough time to think it over. You'll settle into what you want. That's why it is important for you to know first, what it is that you want out of the car.
If it is good all around performance, streetability, nice startup on cold mornings, fuel economy, no worries from the law, then go with stock, but lighter components. You'll be surprised how nice a fresh engine will perform. While you are at it, replace the critical sensors on the EGI. Oxygen (O2) and Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). There was a discussion last month on these sensors. Also get some good brake pads, and the stickiest tires you can find. Go/Stop/Turn are all limited by how well the tires hold the road.
Good luck/have fun!
09-13-01, 11:39 AM
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Is this mechanic an RX7 mechanic or just a regular engine builder?
If you don't trust him, I believe you can get templates from mazdatrix for porting to show how much material to remove for street, bridge, and perifferial(sp?) porting. That would let you know what port job you recieved and show him what to do, if he doesn't know already.
If you don't trust him, I believe you can get templates from mazdatrix for porting to show how much material to remove for street, bridge, and perifferial(sp?) porting. That would let you know what port job you recieved and show him what to do, if he doesn't know already.
09-13-01, 11:51 AM
#7
It would appear that I didn't read you other post in time.
So you are intending to get rid to the smog air pump, so can I assume that you are not concerned about smog???
I disagree with the other comment about the Cataylitic Converter. The Converters of the mid 80's required added air. The new high flow Cats do not require added air. Technology has advance in this area too. I don't care about your position on Green issues. But if you are in front of me, and you stink out the tail pipe, I WILL pass you and I WILL NOT allow you to get in front of me again. Dude in this day and age when you can get clean performance, it is just rude. Like FARTING in crowded elevators, you do not cut people off with your shopping cart in the supermarket. So why do we do it behind the wheel??? Rude people hide in their cars like cowards.
{enough RANTing}
The Air pump has nothing to do with the EFI (fuel injection). These are two systems are not tied in, exept for a connector that will control the Air Valve coming from the ECU. You can also get rid of the air evacuation muffler that looks like a cylinder under the air cleaner box.
No Smog = No Air pump = No stock exhaust =
HEADERS!!!!
Now we are talking double digit HP increases. Long Primary system for more torque.
Again I ask, how important is the behavior of the car to you in stop and go traffic?
Do a street port, take out the aux. port accuators. The RX may not like the stop and go stuff, but now we will be at the limits of the EGI. The stock injection system will be the bottle neck since there is nothing you can do about increasing the size of the air intake. Unless you go to a carb.
Used Dellortos are available used on PartTrader.com. These seem to have the most adjustablility. Racingbeat is just introducing a 6-port Holley kit. So maybe they have overcome the vaccum issue? Atkins rotary has a Supercharger!!! And add the aftermarket programmable injection system to the supercharger with low compression rotors. Tons of low end, massive high end. Streetable. OH MY GOD!!!!
While you are at it. Convert the 13B to 4-port with new side housing. Porting a 4-port is much more dramatic than a 6-port.
This is not stock!!!!
Did I see "stock and street legal" in your post???
The only other thing you could do is spent half the money and drop a V8 into the RX. Blasphemous yes, but a modded V8 will kick booty over a modded 13B. So what do you want the car for???
So you are intending to get rid to the smog air pump, so can I assume that you are not concerned about smog???
I disagree with the other comment about the Cataylitic Converter. The Converters of the mid 80's required added air. The new high flow Cats do not require added air. Technology has advance in this area too. I don't care about your position on Green issues. But if you are in front of me, and you stink out the tail pipe, I WILL pass you and I WILL NOT allow you to get in front of me again. Dude in this day and age when you can get clean performance, it is just rude. Like FARTING in crowded elevators, you do not cut people off with your shopping cart in the supermarket. So why do we do it behind the wheel??? Rude people hide in their cars like cowards.
{enough RANTing}
The Air pump has nothing to do with the EFI (fuel injection). These are two systems are not tied in, exept for a connector that will control the Air Valve coming from the ECU. You can also get rid of the air evacuation muffler that looks like a cylinder under the air cleaner box.
No Smog = No Air pump = No stock exhaust =
HEADERS!!!!
Now we are talking double digit HP increases. Long Primary system for more torque.
Again I ask, how important is the behavior of the car to you in stop and go traffic?
Do a street port, take out the aux. port accuators. The RX may not like the stop and go stuff, but now we will be at the limits of the EGI. The stock injection system will be the bottle neck since there is nothing you can do about increasing the size of the air intake. Unless you go to a carb.
Used Dellortos are available used on PartTrader.com. These seem to have the most adjustablility. Racingbeat is just introducing a 6-port Holley kit. So maybe they have overcome the vaccum issue? Atkins rotary has a Supercharger!!! And add the aftermarket programmable injection system to the supercharger with low compression rotors. Tons of low end, massive high end. Streetable. OH MY GOD!!!!
While you are at it. Convert the 13B to 4-port with new side housing. Porting a 4-port is much more dramatic than a 6-port.
This is not stock!!!!
Did I see "stock and street legal" in your post???
The only other thing you could do is spent half the money and drop a V8 into the RX. Blasphemous yes, but a modded V8 will kick booty over a modded 13B. So what do you want the car for???
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09-14-01, 11:11 AM
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Fun!
Allow me to specify the particulars in what i am wanting out of my Rx7.
The car is perfect....(body and interior)
this is why im having the struggle of changing the original setup of the Vehicle.
On the other hand, Im a 32 yr old C.E.O. of a finance Co. that wishes he was a race car driver instead!
the statement "I want to keep the car as close to stock as possible" was made out of concerns of drastically lowering the value of the car.
Hence the post about whether or not the Rex would ever become a classic.
Is it possible to have the best of both worlds? High performance without permanently altering the car to the point of no return?
To answer previous questions, this mech was not per say "a rotary guy". ive made a couple of calls and decided to postpone.
Thank you all for the speedy response!
Another thought that I am having, is to just fix the orig motor and then buy a second to drop in and alter how I see fit?!?!
Cost effective,...well,..NO,... but fun,...YEAH.
I guess im just going to have to make the choice and stick with it!
To answer MG-Rotary's question. I see no need in polluting the earth any further that what it already is. Im sure that I get get the little rex to run fast enough while keeping emmissions legal,......cant I?
Ideally, I want to have her fast enough to run with my primary (91 Porsche 911 Cab, Tippy) . I dont want to worry about the cops. and I want to maintain the value of the car. I really like the idea of the supercharger, and if the carb is better than the EGI. hey im all for it!
Additionally, I REALLY appreciate your detailed answers!!! Thank you!
I even have no problems with everyone telling me what to do and the painting "Rx7club Car"on the side.
I will get pics of the car up over the weekend, I think once you see the condidtion of the car, ya'll will understand what I mean by perfect condidtion.
Thank you all for your help!! please dont lose patience with me!!
Yall are the greatest!
Respectfully
Embiber
The car is perfect....(body and interior)
this is why im having the struggle of changing the original setup of the Vehicle.
On the other hand, Im a 32 yr old C.E.O. of a finance Co. that wishes he was a race car driver instead!
the statement "I want to keep the car as close to stock as possible" was made out of concerns of drastically lowering the value of the car.
Hence the post about whether or not the Rex would ever become a classic.
Is it possible to have the best of both worlds? High performance without permanently altering the car to the point of no return?
To answer previous questions, this mech was not per say "a rotary guy". ive made a couple of calls and decided to postpone.
Thank you all for the speedy response!
Another thought that I am having, is to just fix the orig motor and then buy a second to drop in and alter how I see fit?!?!
Cost effective,...well,..NO,... but fun,...YEAH.
I guess im just going to have to make the choice and stick with it!
To answer MG-Rotary's question. I see no need in polluting the earth any further that what it already is. Im sure that I get get the little rex to run fast enough while keeping emmissions legal,......cant I?
Ideally, I want to have her fast enough to run with my primary (91 Porsche 911 Cab, Tippy) . I dont want to worry about the cops. and I want to maintain the value of the car. I really like the idea of the supercharger, and if the carb is better than the EGI. hey im all for it!
Additionally, I REALLY appreciate your detailed answers!!! Thank you!
I even have no problems with everyone telling me what to do and the painting "Rx7club Car"on the side.
I will get pics of the car up over the weekend, I think once you see the condidtion of the car, ya'll will understand what I mean by perfect condidtion.
Thank you all for your help!! please dont lose patience with me!!
Yall are the greatest!
Respectfully
Embiber
