my motor
11-25-06, 10:25 PM
#1
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
my motor
Hi this maybe dumb to ask but I need some help with my motor. Ok my motor does not run still. Me and my dad are thinking of sending it to a shop or to my mazda dealer to see if they will rebuild it in the winter. So here is what I need to ask. Would it be beter to send it to a shop that knows how to rebuild a rotory motor or send it to my mazda dealer ship so they rebuild it? Does any one know how much it will cost? Oh I need to ask another thing. Can someone give me a link on a 12a tubo plz?
Damien
PS: I tryed search did not help.
Damien
PS: I tryed search did not help.
11-25-06, 10:51 PM
#5
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by diabolical1
you're probably better off going with a reputable rotary shop. question though, what's the history of the car leading to it's not starting? also, how did you confirm that the motor is dead?
11-25-06, 10:56 PM
#6
what does the car do? can you describe it with as much detail as you can?
failing that, why don't you try to post in your Regional forum and see if maybe someone can come take a look at it. at least try to get a compression test before having the motor torn down because if the motor is good then it's some other problem (most likely less expensive than a rebuild) and the new motor will not start either.
failing that, why don't you try to post in your Regional forum and see if maybe someone can come take a look at it. at least try to get a compression test before having the motor torn down because if the motor is good then it's some other problem (most likely less expensive than a rebuild) and the new motor will not start either.
11-25-06, 11:05 PM
#7
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
Well I know it is my battry but when I use a good battry. When I try to start it all it will to is turn over and over and not start. We tryed gas down the carb and some spray. But it will not start. But I think it is the describe cap, battry cabel, timeing, compression or the motor is dead. But im sorry I gust dont know. do you mean about the regional fourm on here?
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11-25-06, 11:11 PM
#8
Yes, that is what he means. I recommend that you start with the basics on the car. Need to know what lead up to it not running? This is the most critical part of the diagnosis before anyone can help you. Were you driving the car and it just stopped running? Did you start it up, then move it a short distance, shut it off, then it would not restart? Or did you just go out one morning after it ran the day before and it would just not start?
11-25-06, 11:16 PM
#10
how long have you had the car? when was your last tuneup? is there spark? are the plugs staying wet? is fuel getting to the carbie?
i think you should probably take some time and search through a few "car won't start"-threads and get some ideas. start with a tuneup. you can't lose there because even if it ends up being the motor, you would be advised to start with fresh components anyway.
Regional forum = scroll down the main page of the forum and there should be a Canadian forum.
i think you should probably take some time and search through a few "car won't start"-threads and get some ideas. start with a tuneup. you can't lose there because even if it ends up being the motor, you would be advised to start with fresh components anyway.
Regional forum = scroll down the main page of the forum and there should be a Canadian forum.
11-25-06, 11:22 PM
#12
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by diabolical1
how long have you had the car? when was your last tuneup? is there spark? are the plugs staying wet? is fuel getting to the carbie?
i think you should probably take some time and search through a few "car won't start"-threads and get some ideas. start with a tuneup. you can't lose there because even if it ends up being the motor, you would be advised to start with fresh components anyway.
Regional forum = scroll down the main page of the forum and there should be a Canadian forum.
i think you should probably take some time and search through a few "car won't start"-threads and get some ideas. start with a tuneup. you can't lose there because even if it ends up being the motor, you would be advised to start with fresh components anyway.
Regional forum = scroll down the main page of the forum and there should be a Canadian forum.
11-25-06, 11:25 PM
#13
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by diabolical1
oh dear ... not trying to sound like a *****, but are you sure you placed the fuel lines correctly?
11-25-06, 11:33 PM
#14
To try and keep this as simple as possible. The rotary is no different then any combustion motor in checking the basics. One of the most critical parts though of the rotary though is is has to have good cranking compression. I recommend the 1st thing you do is a compression test on the motor. Then if it looks like it has acceptable compression(After you have read the Appropriate thread on this procedure). Then you go to step 2. If the compression is low, then before proceding I recommend the MMO treatment.
#2). If you have acceptable compression. Verify you have Spark and fuel. Either order does not matter because both have to be confirmed.
First verify fuel pump is coming on when you turn the key to the on posistion.
If you hear the pump running then replace the fuel filter and proceed to fuel pressure/volume testing..
#3). Verify you have spark at both leading and trailing plugs. This is done by either removing a spark plug and grounding it with insulated pliers and cranking the motor. Or I use a inline spark tester. You just remove the plug wire and insert it over the plug then take the plug wire and attach it to the other end. Crank the motor and see if the tester is lighting up. You can pick up or order these for $8-$12.
I know this is a rough draft but it is the minimum requirements for a motor to run.
After the above testing if one or more of the following requirements fail then there are certain procedures to follow to determine why.
#2). If you have acceptable compression. Verify you have Spark and fuel. Either order does not matter because both have to be confirmed.
First verify fuel pump is coming on when you turn the key to the on posistion.
If you hear the pump running then replace the fuel filter and proceed to fuel pressure/volume testing..
#3). Verify you have spark at both leading and trailing plugs. This is done by either removing a spark plug and grounding it with insulated pliers and cranking the motor. Or I use a inline spark tester. You just remove the plug wire and insert it over the plug then take the plug wire and attach it to the other end. Crank the motor and see if the tester is lighting up. You can pick up or order these for $8-$12.
I know this is a rough draft but it is the minimum requirements for a motor to run.
After the above testing if one or more of the following requirements fail then there are certain procedures to follow to determine why.
11-25-06, 11:37 PM
#15
GOT WANKEL?
start with new rotor, cap, plugs, wires, and batt. cables if needed to get those out of the way. also do a ghetto compression test and make sure you are getting spark to all of the plugs.
or you know just listen to the doc ^
or you know just listen to the doc ^
11-25-06, 11:55 PM
#17
Originally Posted by kgray
start with new rotor, cap, plugs, wires, and batt. cables if needed to get those out of the way. also do a ghetto compression test and make sure you are getting spark to all of the plugs.
or you know just listen to the doc ^
or you know just listen to the doc ^
11-26-06, 12:31 AM
#18
Lorem ipsum dolor sit ame
Originally Posted by rx7doctor
First verify fuel pump is coming on when you turn the key to the on posistion.
If you hear the pump running then replace the fuel filter...
If you hear the pump running then replace the fuel filter...
At least you can see the right tool resting on that engine bay pic - a hammer.
11-26-06, 12:37 AM
#19
Rotary Freak
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The classic requirements for an internal combustion engine to work are three things:
1-fuel
2-compression
3-spark
"Ghetto" tests are crude tests that anyone can do. Here's one for each item:
1-fuel: remove air cleaner and look down in carburetor throat. Operate the accelerator linkage (or have someone press the accelerator pedal). You should see an enthusiastic spray of gas in the throat. If not, fuel is your problem.
2-compression: remove the two top sparkplugs. Turn the engine over with the starter. You should get an enthusiastic whoosh whoosh whoosh out of each hole. If you don't get pretty consistent whooshes out of the holes you have a compression problem.
3-spark: First make sure you don't have a heavy smell of gas in the engine compartment, lest you blowup the garage in the next test! IF you have a spark problem then some raw gas will be evident and will be subject to unwanted ignition. To ghetto test for spark, after clearing any gas, attach one of the removed sparkplugs to it's wire, lay the plug on some metal away from the plug hole, crank the engine over and see if there's a nice spark in the plug electrode gap.
If test 1 fails you're not getting gas to the engine, which means either somethings plugged up (usually the fuel filter under the car in the back near the tank) or the fuel pump isn't working (either because it's worn out or because the fuse in the fusebox above the drivers left knee is burned out). Many people here have replaced plugged filters. I replaced a wornout fuelpump last month. That fuse is the easiest thing to test, so try it first. Oh yeah, when you know where the pump fuse is then you know how to disable your car easily in case you have to park in a bad neighborhood! Fuses are available at auto stores. Fuel filters are also, and cost about $4. Fuel pumps are easily available, for example for about $50 from rockauto.com.
If test 2 fails you either have a serious internal engine problem requiring a rebuild (the "Apex seals" are shot) OR you have a simple problem of "encouraging" the apex seals to seat and seal, which you can do by pouring a little motor oil, like a couple thimbles full, into the open sparkplug holes and turning the engine over. You'd be surprised how often that works.
If test 3 fails then it's probably a spark problem, which you can confirm with test 3. Even if test 3 works it is probably ignition, since that's the most exacting requirement, and usually non-start problems are spark problems. No spark can result from many things, like no power to the spark system, bad coil, bad distributor cap, bad dist rotor, rotten wires, rotten plugs, and misadjusted timing. Other things, too, like a burned out J109 "ignitor" (a little transistor relay to convert the low power of the rotation sensing system to the higher power of the spark coil primary coil) which is about the size of a matchbook and attached to the side of the distributor (there are two).
If tests 1, 2 and 3 all look good, then the engine should at least sound like it's trying to run, even if it just backfires. With good compression and fuel squirting in the carb an engine with proper spark timing will actually run.
Perhaps one of the other guys will contribute their favorite way of "static timing" the ignition?
1-fuel
2-compression
3-spark
"Ghetto" tests are crude tests that anyone can do. Here's one for each item:
1-fuel: remove air cleaner and look down in carburetor throat. Operate the accelerator linkage (or have someone press the accelerator pedal). You should see an enthusiastic spray of gas in the throat. If not, fuel is your problem.
2-compression: remove the two top sparkplugs. Turn the engine over with the starter. You should get an enthusiastic whoosh whoosh whoosh out of each hole. If you don't get pretty consistent whooshes out of the holes you have a compression problem.
3-spark: First make sure you don't have a heavy smell of gas in the engine compartment, lest you blowup the garage in the next test! IF you have a spark problem then some raw gas will be evident and will be subject to unwanted ignition. To ghetto test for spark, after clearing any gas, attach one of the removed sparkplugs to it's wire, lay the plug on some metal away from the plug hole, crank the engine over and see if there's a nice spark in the plug electrode gap.
If test 1 fails you're not getting gas to the engine, which means either somethings plugged up (usually the fuel filter under the car in the back near the tank) or the fuel pump isn't working (either because it's worn out or because the fuse in the fusebox above the drivers left knee is burned out). Many people here have replaced plugged filters. I replaced a wornout fuelpump last month. That fuse is the easiest thing to test, so try it first. Oh yeah, when you know where the pump fuse is then you know how to disable your car easily in case you have to park in a bad neighborhood! Fuses are available at auto stores. Fuel filters are also, and cost about $4. Fuel pumps are easily available, for example for about $50 from rockauto.com.
If test 2 fails you either have a serious internal engine problem requiring a rebuild (the "Apex seals" are shot) OR you have a simple problem of "encouraging" the apex seals to seat and seal, which you can do by pouring a little motor oil, like a couple thimbles full, into the open sparkplug holes and turning the engine over. You'd be surprised how often that works.
If test 3 fails then it's probably a spark problem, which you can confirm with test 3. Even if test 3 works it is probably ignition, since that's the most exacting requirement, and usually non-start problems are spark problems. No spark can result from many things, like no power to the spark system, bad coil, bad distributor cap, bad dist rotor, rotten wires, rotten plugs, and misadjusted timing. Other things, too, like a burned out J109 "ignitor" (a little transistor relay to convert the low power of the rotation sensing system to the higher power of the spark coil primary coil) which is about the size of a matchbook and attached to the side of the distributor (there are two).
If tests 1, 2 and 3 all look good, then the engine should at least sound like it's trying to run, even if it just backfires. With good compression and fuel squirting in the carb an engine with proper spark timing will actually run.
Perhaps one of the other guys will contribute their favorite way of "static timing" the ignition?
11-26-06, 12:48 PM
#20
Terrified.
The car has been sitting for an entire year since he got it, am I the only one wondering if possibly the gas is bad? I mean I don't know how long the car has sat without running, and he hasn't said that he has replaced the gas in the tank. That could possibly be a problem as well.
11-26-06, 01:01 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Normality_Glitch
The car has been sitting for an entire year since he got it, am I the only one wondering if possibly the gas is bad? I mean I don't know how long the car has sat without running, and he hasn't said that he has replaced the gas in the tank. That could possibly be a problem as well.
I was trying to get him to check the basics before he went any further. Bad gas will be a running issue if he can get it running. I had a vehicle that I bought that had been sitting for almost 3 years. I got it to run with the old gas in her, ran crappy but ran. But the starting problem was not the fuel condition
11-26-06, 01:07 PM
#22
Terrified.
Originally Posted by rx7doctor
Yes Sir, I did.
I was trying to get him to check the basics before he went any further. Bad gas will be a running issue if he can get it running. I had a vehicle that I bought that had been sitting for almost 3 years. I got it to run with the old gas in her, ran crappy but ran. But the starting problem was not the fuel condition
I was trying to get him to check the basics before he went any further. Bad gas will be a running issue if he can get it running. I had a vehicle that I bought that had been sitting for almost 3 years. I got it to run with the old gas in her, ran crappy but ran. But the starting problem was not the fuel condition
11-26-06, 01:21 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Normality_Glitch
Sorry. I was just skimming through the replies, but that was the first thing that popped into my head when it wasn't starting. I should have paid more attention to your reply.
11-26-06, 08:50 PM
#24
Wankel Me This!!
Thread Starter
sorry for a late reply I had been working on my car(body work) and my great aunts car. I dont know if it is the gas and I have not tryed them yet because I need to charge my battry. But my dad thinks it is distributor cap and distributer cam. And thanks for all the tips and help I hope they work so I can drive my car around the block befor I pull my motor soon so I can clean the bay.
11-26-06, 10:19 PM
#25
Cars that have sat for extended periods of time tend to develope more problems than those that have been driven firmly. The range of troubleshooting issue to be addressed can be extensive.
Atm, it sounds like you may have flooding problems and fuel fouled plugs. If this is going to keep occuring, invest in one of those spark plug sandblasters from Harbor Freight, under 20 bucks.
When the volitiles evaporate out of fuel, it leaves a gummy varnish like residue that will plug any and everything up. While you have the car down for the body work, I would clean the ENTIRE fuel system to eliminate any current and future problems. If the new carb has sat for a while, I may need torn down and cleaned too.
I think you are jumping the gun in wanting to do a rebuild. Your starting problem is most likely not related to needing a rebuild. Snip that wild hair until you can chase down the problem/s.
You will need to check/clean the fuel system from the tank to the carb, then the ignition system.
Atm, it sounds like you may have flooding problems and fuel fouled plugs. If this is going to keep occuring, invest in one of those spark plug sandblasters from Harbor Freight, under 20 bucks.
When the volitiles evaporate out of fuel, it leaves a gummy varnish like residue that will plug any and everything up. While you have the car down for the body work, I would clean the ENTIRE fuel system to eliminate any current and future problems. If the new carb has sat for a while, I may need torn down and cleaned too.
I think you are jumping the gun in wanting to do a rebuild. Your starting problem is most likely not related to needing a rebuild. Snip that wild hair until you can chase down the problem/s.
You will need to check/clean the fuel system from the tank to the carb, then the ignition system.