If you were buying a new car....
02-20-07, 01:29 AM
#51
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
What is s-plan?
I have a relative through marriage that works at a dealership up north a ways, and the salesguy I spoke with said I should see about getting a "friends and family" pin number from him so I can get some big discount on the car. I'll have to check into that as well.
Can't get this damn car out of my head now. lol. Should've been asleep hours ago.
I have a relative through marriage that works at a dealership up north a ways, and the salesguy I spoke with said I should see about getting a "friends and family" pin number from him so I can get some big discount on the car. I'll have to check into that as well.
Can't get this damn car out of my head now. lol. Should've been asleep hours ago.
02-20-07, 03:57 AM
#53
bon-i-fied car guy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Info on new Mazdas here!!!
First off, for the record, Ford has no say in Mazda's vehicles with the exception as to what is sent here to the states. Ford owns 23% of Mazda's stock (a controlling interest only in Japan) which allows them to share Mazda technology and vice/versa but gives Mazda autonomy in development and manufacturing. I spent nearly 3 years as a Mazda salesman (and enthusiast) and in 2006 was ranked in the top 15 Mazda master certified salespeople west of the Mississippi. Here is my call on your dilemma as well as some info to set the records straight.
First off, Mazda offers a couple different levels of interior buying programs S-plan is applicable to most as it covers blood relatives of Mazda employees and salespeople. This, as I remember goes out as far as first cousins. It is basically invoice price. Even better is the Eplan, but you have to be directly employed by Mazda (i.e. work in the factory) and is a couple grand back of invoice, good luck with that one. Ford interior plans (x or z plans) translate respectively. Get that pin, it will save you precious time and money.
MS6: ABSOLUTELY INCREDIABLE CAR! The only car I've ever gotten a speeding ticket in. The 2.3T engine was ranked by Wards Report as one of the ten best engines of 06. If you search far and wide there might still be some 06 model year vehicles which will be well incentivised as well as having a 4yr 50k mi warranty from the factory. If I were you I wouldn't buy a vehicle until you have driven one of these!
MS3: I was originally very impressed with this car although my feelings on it have faded somewhat. I don't find the handling on slick surfaces to be nearly as good as the MS6. I know, I wrecked one! Also, the third gear is reportedly failing due to torque stress. Also, the ability to get a dealership to sell one at S-plan is an issue. Call around first. Ask to talk to the desk when you do (the only people really able to promise anything).
CX7: Also great vehicle. Built on a M6 platform with the 2.3t and a 6spd automatic. AWD is also the same as a MS6 and has gotten great reviews off-road and in the snow.
CX9: Same deal, longer frame Ford Duratek 3.5L V6. Third row best room in class.
Tribute: Sits on a Ford Probe platform (believe it or not) which is in actuality a Mazda MX6 platform! 3.0L v6 and AWD also available.
If you really are planning on deep snow, I suggest the AWD. Otherwise all the FWD vehicles handle quite well in all conditions. Mercury was ranked second by JD Power for overall reliability after Lexus in their 06 report of 3 yr old vehicles and offer both the Milan (M6 platform) and the Mariner (MX6 platform) with AWD in the V6 versions. Note on reliability: all reliability figures on new vehicles are only conjecture based on previous records, not factual data on the actual vehicle.
Subaru is also a good choice, but not as fun. Also, reliability is expected to fall slightly now that they are made in Indiana.
Anyway, good luck and don't take any guff from those evil salesguys! And if you're ever in the market for a Lincoln or Mercury in the Portland, OR area, look me up!
First off, Mazda offers a couple different levels of interior buying programs S-plan is applicable to most as it covers blood relatives of Mazda employees and salespeople. This, as I remember goes out as far as first cousins. It is basically invoice price. Even better is the Eplan, but you have to be directly employed by Mazda (i.e. work in the factory) and is a couple grand back of invoice, good luck with that one. Ford interior plans (x or z plans) translate respectively. Get that pin, it will save you precious time and money.
MS6: ABSOLUTELY INCREDIABLE CAR! The only car I've ever gotten a speeding ticket in. The 2.3T engine was ranked by Wards Report as one of the ten best engines of 06. If you search far and wide there might still be some 06 model year vehicles which will be well incentivised as well as having a 4yr 50k mi warranty from the factory. If I were you I wouldn't buy a vehicle until you have driven one of these!
MS3: I was originally very impressed with this car although my feelings on it have faded somewhat. I don't find the handling on slick surfaces to be nearly as good as the MS6. I know, I wrecked one! Also, the third gear is reportedly failing due to torque stress. Also, the ability to get a dealership to sell one at S-plan is an issue. Call around first. Ask to talk to the desk when you do (the only people really able to promise anything).
CX7: Also great vehicle. Built on a M6 platform with the 2.3t and a 6spd automatic. AWD is also the same as a MS6 and has gotten great reviews off-road and in the snow.
CX9: Same deal, longer frame Ford Duratek 3.5L V6. Third row best room in class.
Tribute: Sits on a Ford Probe platform (believe it or not) which is in actuality a Mazda MX6 platform! 3.0L v6 and AWD also available.
If you really are planning on deep snow, I suggest the AWD. Otherwise all the FWD vehicles handle quite well in all conditions. Mercury was ranked second by JD Power for overall reliability after Lexus in their 06 report of 3 yr old vehicles and offer both the Milan (M6 platform) and the Mariner (MX6 platform) with AWD in the V6 versions. Note on reliability: all reliability figures on new vehicles are only conjecture based on previous records, not factual data on the actual vehicle.
Subaru is also a good choice, but not as fun. Also, reliability is expected to fall slightly now that they are made in Indiana.
Anyway, good luck and don't take any guff from those evil salesguys! And if you're ever in the market for a Lincoln or Mercury in the Portland, OR area, look me up!
02-20-07, 07:43 AM
#55
MS3 would be an excellent choice, less expensive and better gas mileage than the 6 versions. We love our MP5, predecessor to the M3 5 door, and that's without the performance package. As I mentioned before we have more than 80,000 trouble free miles on it and it's still like new in performance and appearance, nothing has broken or needed repair.
Adding the performance version sounds like something you need to satisfy your lust for power and performance but you might want to think about the MS3 5 door to make up for the smaller space of the MS3. The hatch is great for loading and unloading lots of bulky cargo and I think it is really nice looking, much better than the pedestrian sedans, which all seem to look alike no matter who makes them.
For reliability and customer satisfaction, you should check out Consumer Reports. You can get a 1 year subscription for $20, with immediate on line access to all the car ratings, not a bad idea if you haven't already. I know that when we bought the MP3 four years ago it rated right up there at the top, just a notch below Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla (statistically insignificant really) and the M3 is supposed to be an improvement over the MP5 in performance and reliability.
And yeh, unfortunately Jon is right, buy Japanese for best value, the european cars are overpriced and unreliable and the American cars (or should we say American trucks and SUVs?) are designed for cowboys and paranoid housewives, another legacy of the Bush years.
But with those big boys growing up you may need to get two MS3's, one for you and one for them.
Ray
Adding the performance version sounds like something you need to satisfy your lust for power and performance but you might want to think about the MS3 5 door to make up for the smaller space of the MS3. The hatch is great for loading and unloading lots of bulky cargo and I think it is really nice looking, much better than the pedestrian sedans, which all seem to look alike no matter who makes them.
For reliability and customer satisfaction, you should check out Consumer Reports. You can get a 1 year subscription for $20, with immediate on line access to all the car ratings, not a bad idea if you haven't already. I know that when we bought the MP3 four years ago it rated right up there at the top, just a notch below Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla (statistically insignificant really) and the M3 is supposed to be an improvement over the MP5 in performance and reliability.
And yeh, unfortunately Jon is right, buy Japanese for best value, the european cars are overpriced and unreliable and the American cars (or should we say American trucks and SUVs?) are designed for cowboys and paranoid housewives, another legacy of the Bush years.
But with those big boys growing up you may need to get two MS3's, one for you and one for them.
Ray
Last edited by ray green; 02-20-07 at 07:54 AM.
02-20-07, 10:41 AM
#56
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
emottau- Thanks for taking the time to write up all of that info! Very informative. I found out today that a different dealer in the area has two MS6s on the lot, so I'll try to find the time to take one for a spin this week.
Viper- I couldn't agree more. Even though a lot of people are telling me that the domestic car makers are doing much better now, I have a pretty long memory. I'm still pissed off at them for expecting everyone to pay the high price for a car that would slowly (or sometimes quickly) fall apart on you as you drove it. Not to mention the performance differences, etc. All of this when you could pick up a Jap car for dirt cheap and drive it forever. But of course, that made you a Jap loving, American hating, communist bastard. I call it making an intelligent decision... You see, I do remember the days when people actually gave you crap for driving an import, and sometimes would even vandalize the cars just to prove their point.
Anyway, I couldn't sleep last night because I kept thinking about the little pocket rocket. When I did fall asleep I had dreams about it. And it was the first thing I thought of when I woke up today.
The buddy I took with me (as a buffer to keep me from doing anything impulsive, like buying something right away) has owned a WRX and an STI. He called me first thing today raving about the damn car, saying he wished he could have one too. I guess it's been on his mind too. lol.
Viper- I couldn't agree more. Even though a lot of people are telling me that the domestic car makers are doing much better now, I have a pretty long memory. I'm still pissed off at them for expecting everyone to pay the high price for a car that would slowly (or sometimes quickly) fall apart on you as you drove it. Not to mention the performance differences, etc. All of this when you could pick up a Jap car for dirt cheap and drive it forever. But of course, that made you a Jap loving, American hating, communist bastard. I call it making an intelligent decision... You see, I do remember the days when people actually gave you crap for driving an import, and sometimes would even vandalize the cars just to prove their point.
Anyway, I couldn't sleep last night because I kept thinking about the little pocket rocket. When I did fall asleep I had dreams about it. And it was the first thing I thought of when I woke up today.
The buddy I took with me (as a buffer to keep me from doing anything impulsive, like buying something right away) has owned a WRX and an STI. He called me first thing today raving about the damn car, saying he wished he could have one too. I guess it's been on his mind too. lol.
02-20-07, 01:01 PM
#58
never posts...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My mamasita bought a MS6 just over a year ago, it was the second one the dealer had gotten in. She loves it. I've driven it only a handful of times, so I can't say what my handling impressions of it were. But had a good time standing on the pedal, though it'll drain that tank of premium pretty quickly. I think as far as a reasonably priced four door sedan its the ****.
Especially in the black cherry. Its not quite red, not quite black, maybe a maroon, though more red in the sun, but then its kinda reddish-black in the shade, but at the right angle its striaght up black, but sparkly.
I like.
Especially in the black cherry. Its not quite red, not quite black, maybe a maroon, though more red in the sun, but then its kinda reddish-black in the shade, but at the right angle its striaght up black, but sparkly.
I like.
02-20-07, 01:07 PM
#59
Terrified.
I would definitely go after the Subaru. I just read the first page of this so I have no idea if you bought something or not, but Subaru would be what I'd go with. Of course, here we get a toin of snow and need something great in the snow to deal with all of it, but I definitely say Subaru. I'm kind of wishing I would have found one instead of my Jetta, but so far no problems either way.
02-20-07, 01:26 PM
#60
never posts...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^
I'm a fan of Subaru's. I think the Legacy GT is spot on. With that said, I'm going to throw this out there. I remember about year and a half ago, this 02'-ish WRX came in for an inspection, and it left with a broken transmission input shaft. I think the guy driving it for inspection was manhandling it, this coupled with sticky tires caused it to go. But while talking to our tranny guy he was saying that the manual Subi gear boxes weren't all that strong, though the automatics were a nice piece. Pretty sure he said that they used Nissian autos. Don't know if this is still true of Subarus or not, just thought if it.
I'm a fan of Subaru's. I think the Legacy GT is spot on. With that said, I'm going to throw this out there. I remember about year and a half ago, this 02'-ish WRX came in for an inspection, and it left with a broken transmission input shaft. I think the guy driving it for inspection was manhandling it, this coupled with sticky tires caused it to go. But while talking to our tranny guy he was saying that the manual Subi gear boxes weren't all that strong, though the automatics were a nice piece. Pretty sure he said that they used Nissian autos. Don't know if this is still true of Subarus or not, just thought if it.
02-20-07, 05:12 PM
#63
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
I was really considering the Subies, but to get into anything with decent power for under 30 grand, about your only choice is the WRX. Not that they're bad or anything, just that everyone (er, every cop that is) knows what they are. Between the punks wanting to race at every light, and the cops issuing speeding tickets to parked cars, I think I could do with a little less attention grabbing.
And awd is nice, especially for snow, but you have to take into consideration the weight penalty and added drivetrain power loss. Either way, realistically I'm only having to deal with a dozen or so days of real snowy nastiness around here anyway, so not getting awd is not going to be a deal breaker.
All I can say right now is that every one of you should go down to your local dealership and take one of the MS3's for a rip. Then tell them they suck so I can get a good deal on one! lol
And awd is nice, especially for snow, but you have to take into consideration the weight penalty and added drivetrain power loss. Either way, realistically I'm only having to deal with a dozen or so days of real snowy nastiness around here anyway, so not getting awd is not going to be a deal breaker.
All I can say right now is that every one of you should go down to your local dealership and take one of the MS3's for a rip. Then tell them they suck so I can get a good deal on one! lol
02-20-07, 05:16 PM
#64
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by notveryhappyjack
are you looking for a new car or are you looking for a 2007 model ?
02-21-07, 09:24 PM
#65
Lives on the Forum
Thread Starter
Hmmm, some info from another Mazda forum (this one dedicated to the Mazda3 and Speed3). The plot thickens.......
Mazda/Ford relationship & Mazda3 parts sharing thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seeing that there's currently two threads on this, and who knows how many threads before it - I'm going to break a moderator rule here by making a sticky without first getting Antoine or Enry's permission. I want to sort this out once and for all, and by making it a sticky, all new users can find this thread without posting the question again.
Ford's involvement in Mazda
- Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda's shares. Under Japanese law, anyone with over 33% gets controlling share (obviously the law is much more complicated than this, but this is the jist of it). Therefore, Ford controls Mazda.
Mazda3 platform sharing
- Mazda3's platform was a joint-development with Ford of Europe, Mazda, and Volvo. This platform is for the following cars: Mazda3, new Volvo S40/V50, Ford Focus C-Max (not avail. in N. America), and the flagship vehicle - the next-gen euro-Ford Focus (this vehicle will be introduced later this year and will not be coming to N. America anytime soon - the re-styled N. American '05 Focus stays with the old platform).
- Each company was the lead for their main strength. So Ford of Europe was the lead for driving dynamics (the current-gen euro-Focus is nothing short of awesome), Volvo the structurals and safety, and Mazda for the powertrains and exhaust systems (Japanese-reliability and technology).
- The individual brands could then add their own brand-specific stuff on top of the common platform (e.g. steels of different strengths for additional safety on the Volvo, and 3 additional tranny-area cross-members on the Mazda to further reduce body-flex)
- In the end, 42% of the Mazda3's parts are shared with its siblings. This means that 58% of the Mazda3 is all Mazda, with the other 42% being co-developed.
- None of the shared components can be seen, heard, or felt by the typical consumer
- So what are examples of things the Mazda3 gained from this platform sharing?
- control-blade rear-suspension is simply awesome (it performs better and is cheaper to manufacture than the one Mazda developed for the Mazda6)
- Mazda3's largest brakes are larger than those on the Mazda6
- Crash-protection will be excellent
Mazda3 engines
- Rule #1. Never go by the marketing names for engine families. For example, the '05 N. American Focus will have an engine called the Duratec 23. This goes along with the Duratec 35 that's currently in development, and the Duratec 30 (the one that is the basis for the Mazda6 3.0l). Aside from the marketing names, these engines have nothing in common (Note: the Duratec 30 is currently called the Duratec 3.0, the names I've used above are the names Ford will use in the upcoming 1-2 years).
- Recognizing the need to develop a strong 4-cylinder engine family to compete against the ones from Honda and others, Ford assigned Mazda to develop the engine family. Ford gave Mazda the basic block, some intellectual property (e.g. Cosworth casting process), some money, and told Mazda to come back with a state-of-the-art engine family with a streamlined manufacturing process that can be manufactured at plants around the world. These engines would be shared by Ford, Mazda, and whoever else in the Ford family with the need for it.
- Mazda did this and developed a 4-cylinder engine family in the following displacements: 1.8, 2.0, 2.3. Even though the Mazda3 1.6l is often referred to as a MZR, it's actually part of a smaller engine family (remember my rule #1).
- Similar to the platform sharing above, the 4-cylinder engine family that Mazda gave is the basic family - it is then up to the brand to add stuff to it (e.g. PZEV for the 2.3l N. American Focus, SVT for Mazda's 1.8 and 2.3). To further re-inforce my point, notice that Mazda doesn't have a PZEV 2.3l.
- This engine family is currently being manufactured at:
- Chihuahua, Mexico (for N. American Focus, N. American Mazda6 2.3l, Ford Ranger)
- Hiroshima, Japan (for Mazda3, Japanese-assembled Mazda6)
- Valencia, Spain (honestly, I don't think Valencia is making this engine family at the moment, but I'm not sure, and I do know for sure that this plant can build this engine family)
- here's a technical press release about the 4-cylinder engine family (if the link doesn't originally work, try refreshing):
http://www.carseverything.com/conten...rticle/1346.3/
Hopefully this clears up a lot of misconceptions of the Mazda3.
Apr 18, 2005 edit:
A thread has come up concerning Mazda3 assembly locations.
Current Mazda3 assembly facilities:
- Hofu plant 1 & 2 in Hofu, Japan, and Ujina plant 2 in Hiroshima. (June 28, 2005 edit: Hofu 2 and Ujina 2 production added to meet demand)
- Ford Lio Ho plant, Taiwan. Mazda3 assembly from knock-down kits
- Ford Motor Company Philippines plant, Santa Rosa, Laguna, Philippines. Mazda3 assembly from knock-down kits
The Philippines & Taiwan plants combined assemble a total of roughly 1000 Mazda3 units per month for a selected few local markets around southeast Asia. Mazda3 for all other worldwide markets are assembled from Japan.
Back to Kentetsu now: This was posted in '04, so it might be dated. Also, the thread goes on to talk about finding pieces of the car with labeled ford parts on it, but this is all referring to the Mazda3, not the Speed3. I really don't know what to think right now... If I buy a Mazda, I want to know that I'm buying a Mazda and not just a relabeled Ford. But then again, either way you can't argue with performance. On the other hand, reliability? ****! Now what am I gonna do???
Its like finding out that the girl you planned to marry might have been cheating on you!
Mazda/Ford relationship & Mazda3 parts sharing thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seeing that there's currently two threads on this, and who knows how many threads before it - I'm going to break a moderator rule here by making a sticky without first getting Antoine or Enry's permission. I want to sort this out once and for all, and by making it a sticky, all new users can find this thread without posting the question again.
Ford's involvement in Mazda
- Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda's shares. Under Japanese law, anyone with over 33% gets controlling share (obviously the law is much more complicated than this, but this is the jist of it). Therefore, Ford controls Mazda.
Mazda3 platform sharing
- Mazda3's platform was a joint-development with Ford of Europe, Mazda, and Volvo. This platform is for the following cars: Mazda3, new Volvo S40/V50, Ford Focus C-Max (not avail. in N. America), and the flagship vehicle - the next-gen euro-Ford Focus (this vehicle will be introduced later this year and will not be coming to N. America anytime soon - the re-styled N. American '05 Focus stays with the old platform).
- Each company was the lead for their main strength. So Ford of Europe was the lead for driving dynamics (the current-gen euro-Focus is nothing short of awesome), Volvo the structurals and safety, and Mazda for the powertrains and exhaust systems (Japanese-reliability and technology).
- The individual brands could then add their own brand-specific stuff on top of the common platform (e.g. steels of different strengths for additional safety on the Volvo, and 3 additional tranny-area cross-members on the Mazda to further reduce body-flex)
- In the end, 42% of the Mazda3's parts are shared with its siblings. This means that 58% of the Mazda3 is all Mazda, with the other 42% being co-developed.
- None of the shared components can be seen, heard, or felt by the typical consumer
- So what are examples of things the Mazda3 gained from this platform sharing?
- control-blade rear-suspension is simply awesome (it performs better and is cheaper to manufacture than the one Mazda developed for the Mazda6)
- Mazda3's largest brakes are larger than those on the Mazda6
- Crash-protection will be excellent
Mazda3 engines
- Rule #1. Never go by the marketing names for engine families. For example, the '05 N. American Focus will have an engine called the Duratec 23. This goes along with the Duratec 35 that's currently in development, and the Duratec 30 (the one that is the basis for the Mazda6 3.0l). Aside from the marketing names, these engines have nothing in common (Note: the Duratec 30 is currently called the Duratec 3.0, the names I've used above are the names Ford will use in the upcoming 1-2 years).
- Recognizing the need to develop a strong 4-cylinder engine family to compete against the ones from Honda and others, Ford assigned Mazda to develop the engine family. Ford gave Mazda the basic block, some intellectual property (e.g. Cosworth casting process), some money, and told Mazda to come back with a state-of-the-art engine family with a streamlined manufacturing process that can be manufactured at plants around the world. These engines would be shared by Ford, Mazda, and whoever else in the Ford family with the need for it.
- Mazda did this and developed a 4-cylinder engine family in the following displacements: 1.8, 2.0, 2.3. Even though the Mazda3 1.6l is often referred to as a MZR, it's actually part of a smaller engine family (remember my rule #1).
- Similar to the platform sharing above, the 4-cylinder engine family that Mazda gave is the basic family - it is then up to the brand to add stuff to it (e.g. PZEV for the 2.3l N. American Focus, SVT for Mazda's 1.8 and 2.3). To further re-inforce my point, notice that Mazda doesn't have a PZEV 2.3l.
- This engine family is currently being manufactured at:
- Chihuahua, Mexico (for N. American Focus, N. American Mazda6 2.3l, Ford Ranger)
- Hiroshima, Japan (for Mazda3, Japanese-assembled Mazda6)
- Valencia, Spain (honestly, I don't think Valencia is making this engine family at the moment, but I'm not sure, and I do know for sure that this plant can build this engine family)
- here's a technical press release about the 4-cylinder engine family (if the link doesn't originally work, try refreshing):
http://www.carseverything.com/conten...rticle/1346.3/
Hopefully this clears up a lot of misconceptions of the Mazda3.
Apr 18, 2005 edit:
A thread has come up concerning Mazda3 assembly locations.
Current Mazda3 assembly facilities:
- Hofu plant 1 & 2 in Hofu, Japan, and Ujina plant 2 in Hiroshima. (June 28, 2005 edit: Hofu 2 and Ujina 2 production added to meet demand)
- Ford Lio Ho plant, Taiwan. Mazda3 assembly from knock-down kits
- Ford Motor Company Philippines plant, Santa Rosa, Laguna, Philippines. Mazda3 assembly from knock-down kits
The Philippines & Taiwan plants combined assemble a total of roughly 1000 Mazda3 units per month for a selected few local markets around southeast Asia. Mazda3 for all other worldwide markets are assembled from Japan.
Back to Kentetsu now: This was posted in '04, so it might be dated. Also, the thread goes on to talk about finding pieces of the car with labeled ford parts on it, but this is all referring to the Mazda3, not the Speed3. I really don't know what to think right now... If I buy a Mazda, I want to know that I'm buying a Mazda and not just a relabeled Ford. But then again, either way you can't argue with performance. On the other hand, reliability? ****! Now what am I gonna do???
Its like finding out that the girl you planned to marry might have been cheating on you!
Last edited by Kentetsu; 02-21-07 at 09:38 PM.
02-22-07, 07:26 AM
#66
Kentetsu, interesting stuff. While in the dentist office yesterday I noticed but didn't have time to read a recent article on the MS3 in one of those popular auto mags (Car and Driver, Motortrend or something like that), you might get a more objective picture from the car mags. Sounds like you are having fun, wish it were me (maybe next year?)
Ray
Ray
02-22-07, 08:10 AM
#67
subaru legacy gt would be one of my first picks. or a mazda 3/6. i dont think they sit four, but scion Xbs are VERY comfortable. im 6'2 and can sit in the back seat comfortably. and of course they are reliable.
personally though, i would probably get an STI haha but thats a bit over 30k
personally though, i would probably get an STI haha but thats a bit over 30k
02-22-07, 08:56 AM
#68
The General RE
All cars made nowadays suck in one way or another. It is hard to choose which one sucks the least.
+1 on Legacy GT. My friend had one and it was nice. He got is loaded for 26K. They are more now and aren't offered with the 6spd anymore. It has better quality and feel than the Impreza and is only slightly heavier.
The MS3 has the good motor. I question the reliability and resale though.
Right now may be a good time to lease a car because of all the new technology coming out. For example: Subaru is supposed to release a hybrid soon. Maybe next year? If they did it may reduce resale values of non hybrid models.
If you need a new car buy a rabit for $15k and save the rest for a real car...your RX.
+1 on Legacy GT. My friend had one and it was nice. He got is loaded for 26K. They are more now and aren't offered with the 6spd anymore. It has better quality and feel than the Impreza and is only slightly heavier.
The MS3 has the good motor. I question the reliability and resale though.
Right now may be a good time to lease a car because of all the new technology coming out. For example: Subaru is supposed to release a hybrid soon. Maybe next year? If they did it may reduce resale values of non hybrid models.
If you need a new car buy a rabit for $15k and save the rest for a real car...your RX.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SakeBomb Garage
Group Buy & Product Dev. FD RX-7
8
10-09-15 10:05 PM
mulcryant
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
10
09-09-15 05:24 PM