Nick-7

I have an 84 se.

I will start off with some background info on my problems.
Several weeks ago I posted about a sputtering problem at higher rpm's, it was random. I change plug wires and the rotor and distributor cap. Last week I started to work on my DLIDFS system and I replaced the starter. That night I started the car and it ran so I turned it off. I know about the flooding problem when not letting it warm up, but I usually do not have any trouble. The next day I tried to start the car and it would not start. It has not started since.

I found one of the problems. The coils were plugged into the wrong spot on the dizzy and the distributor cap was turned upside down. I have no idea how they got turned around that way (it must have been when I changed the cap a few weeks back). I don't even think the car will run if the cap is backwards.

Well today I hooked everything up like it was supposed to and tried starting the car, no luck. I sprayed starter fluid into the intake and I finally got the car to start and it died. I started to smell gas, so I thought it was flooding. The gas was leaking through the joints in the exhaust pipe. I guess from me trying to start it today the gas built up. Earlier the car backfired extremely loud. I guess that this was because of the gas build up.

Ok my question is this. Shouldn't the gas evaporate overnight? Could my injectors be stuck open? I tried starting the car a couple of days ago and put a screw driver to the fuel rail and the injectors sounded fine. Tomorrow I will try and use more starter fluid to see if it will turn over again. This weekend I will try and take the fuel rail off to test the injectors.

RX7145

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like its flooded bad. Pull the plugs turn it over, clean the plugs, Put the plugs back in. You might need to do this 2-3 times before it starts. Then take it out for a hard drive

Nick-7

I just went outside and asked my brother to look at the exhause while I turned it over. I floored it and cranked the motor for a few seconds at a time. After a few tries he saw some fuel come out one of the exhaust flanges.
I think now the car is just flooded extremely bad.


If the injector is stuck open how do I fix it? Will soaking the tip in kerosene help, or do I need to send it off to get rebuilt?

red13brx7

Take the plug out and turn it over YET? Becuase that is definitley what you need to do if you haven't yet. And clean them with carb cleaner or whatever you got and put them back in. Just keep doing it and see if it improves, obviously don't pump the pedal just makes it worse.... you probably and everyone else probably knows that..

Nick-7

I have taken the plugs out along with disconnecting the black wire on the trailing coil (that supposebly sends the signal to the ECU to fire the injectors) and I have turned it over, but I will do it again tomorrow.

I read somewhere that if you floor the gas and start the car, it will cancel the injectors.

cheapie

Think about bad igniters, too. I found that very confusing things happen when one igniter goes bad. I still cant explain some of the wierd *** things that happened. Although, I have never had trouble starting mine, so take this for what it's worth.

85rotarypower

Flooring the throttle will not cancel the injectors. It actually sends a signal to the ECU that you want WOT and it will inject even more gas.

jayroc

I would check for spark if I were you. You said you staretd to work on DLIDFIS? Maybe a wiring problem to the ignitors?
If you're getting spark, what you could also try is taking out the fuse for the fuel pump and cranking it over until all the fuel is gone. Then plug her back in and try again. If it floods again though, you definitely have an ignition problem.

Tom

If it's flooded all to hell be careful when and where you check for spark! Let that puppy dry out a bit to eliminate any vapor combustion..WHOOOSHHH!!

Nick-7

I checked my wiring, so I know the igniters are hooked up properly. The igniters are good, they will not spark at all if they are bad.

Which fuse is for the fuel pump. I lost my fusebox cover. I looked on a cover from my 81 and it is different.

Thanks for clearing me up on the WOT thing. I am sure that made my starting problem worse.

Nick-7

I went out to try and start the car again and I think that one of the injectors are bad. I made sure all the gas was out of the combustion chamber before I tried to start it. I turned the car over and it acted like it wanted to start and then it sounded like it was having trouble turning over. I took the leading of both plugs out and it was flooding again. I only tried to start it a few times.
I looked under the car and saw a puddle of gas leaking from the exhaust.

I thought the injectors might have been stuck open, but they would not both get stuck open at the same time. Does anybody know what could cause this?
I will try to do all the hard start/ no start tests in the FSM. I already tested the sensor in the water pump housing. It seemed to read ok.

BigJim

Wait a minute. This is an SE. Fuel injected. What is one thing u never do to a fuel injected car unless u have alot of money and time. Floor it to start it. Itl burn out your fuel pump. But i guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do, but i wouldnt recommend flooring it when starting

Nick-7

If my fuel pump was burnt out than the car would not flood, because it would have no fuel. I think the problem is flooding due to
1) stuck open injectors (both of them)
2) sensor malfunction (causing the motor's want of too much fuel)
3) Pressure regulator malfunction or something.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Nick-7,

I am currently in the same situation as you are. My engine was recently rebuilt. It was hard to start at first due to low compression, ran well for a while, and now I am getting the same symptoms as you are. If I figure it out, I will let you know. I have performed all checks in the FSM for hard start/no start and the only problem I can find on mine is that my fuel pressure is about 9 psi too high.

I am not sure on the level of sophitication of the factory ECU, but typically FI ECUs will put out a fixed pulsewidth on the injectors is below a certain rpm (like 300 rpm) and newer FI systems, like the '89 and up rx-7 do have the ability to cancel the injectors if you floor the throttle while cranking. BTW, there should be no way of burning up you fuel pump as long as you have fuel in the system. The fuel pump runs at a constant rate and whatever fuel that does not get used just circulates back to the tank.

I agree with you, Nick-7, about those possiblities. Since you said the water thermo sensor was okay. I would start off by pulling the injectors and check for leaking and to make sure that both are firing okay. I would then check fuel pressure.

If you had the distributor cap backwards, the engine would just be timed off of the rear rotor instead of the front rotor. Double check ignition wiring. Trailing coil closest to the front of the car.

Kent

Nick-7

MY CAR RUNS YEAH!!!!!!


Ok yeasterday my girlfriend was standing in the drivway and I said " I am going to try and start the car even though it won't start." I turned the car over and it acted like it wanted to fire real bad. It started and ran like crap for a few minutes until all the extra fuel got out of the motor. I took it driving (I drove it hard) and it felt like it used to. I have been driving my brothers 12a for the past 2 weeks and my car felt so much stronger.

I guess it was flooded horribly bad, but I am still confused why it happened in the first place.
Before I found that my distributor cap and coils were swithed around, but I think it ran because I changed them that way on accident a week before the problem started.
I guess it flooded that morning because I did not let the car warm up the night before. When I tried to start it I floored it because I thought that it would cancel the injectors(it has started this way before). Ever since then I guess it has just been injecting to much fuel to start.

Thank you for everybodies help.

gsl-se addict
Is your motor acting like it will start at all or is it just turning over like mine was? Do you smell fuel?
When you figure out what was wrong I with your car tell me, I am curious.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Way to go. I am glad that you got it running. I have a fuel cut switch on mine so that I can kill the pump at anytime. Mine is flooded for sure and every once in awhile I can get it to fire but it just runs for no more than a second or two and then dies. I think that I am having this problem because of this combination of the compression still building after the rebuild and the fact that my fuel pressure is too high. The car is at my grandparents' house which is about 2.5 hours from me so I usually only get a chance one day a week to go down a work on it. It was running fairly good before, but I flooded it out and haven't been able to get it going again since. Once I get it running good again, I have a Megasquirt ECU ready to go in. The Megasquirt will let me remove the AFM, has the ability to cancel the injectors by holding the gas pedal down, and will let me have tunability over the fuel delivery of the car.

Kent

Nick-7

I am sure that once you get the fuel pressure down and have a chance to break the motor in good, it will start and run much better.
Isn't the megasquirt a kit. When you have a chance to get it in tell me how hard it was to install, how hard tuning was and how well it works.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, as soon as it gets going on the megasquirt, I will be sure to let you all know how it runs. The megasquirt is built and operating fine and I have it wired into the car. I used connectors so that I can switch back to the stock computer at anytime.

My plan was to use the stock computer at first to warm up the engine and then switch over to MS so that I don't have to worry about the warm-up enrichments being off. I was actually in the process of trying the MS when it flooded. I first warmed it up on the stock computer, switched over to MS, and then it flooded because my cranking pulsewidth values were too high. So now I am trying to get it running again on the stock computer. Once I get it going again, I will run it some more on the stock computer to get it broken in more before I try the MS again.

Kent