BMS2004

nick, the SE rad was shorter see here
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/1stgen/manu...5%20ENGINE.pdf
anyways on the EP car we have a tall aluminum rad. To still have the FMOC I have to bend some brackets out of some 2x1/4" or so steel. you know that big "pipe" that joins the two rails if you will together. It is as far forward as that and just a little above that pipe. obviously with relocation you need longer lines which can be made at an industrial store. Anyways, back to the brackets. where the "pipe" is on the side there is flat spaces to put the brackets. I welded the brackets to the metal and drilled the steel brackets for the oil cooler to attach to. yea my description sucks but well, i'll try to take pics tommorow.

BMS2004

see where like the area where you hood hinges attach to? well follow that metal down and there will be a flat area to put brackets, theres even a nice little lip so that you can butt it up against that so everything should be aligned. That "pipe" follows this opening and ties the front end together. Hope this makes some sense.

nick1

you know its unbelievable how many different answers you get to one question. and it seems like everyone seems to think they're right!!!

makes me wonder how much information that i've learned on these boards is untrue!. man this whole thread is so confusing. so then the gsl-se rad IS smaller than the gsl, meaning that my gsl rad is not going to bolt right up to a gls-se oil cooler. does this mean the -se oil cooler/rad setup is similar to the earlier models then wehre its mounted under the rad?, or is it different, and placed in front of the rad, UNLIKE the older models.

it makes sense no matter what to me, to just find a decent oil cooler, and make brackets to mount to that round looking bar that you see in front of the rad, and just mount it there. get cooler lines built, one end of each line to fit the oil cooler, and the other end of each line a replica of stock (or just cut off and use the stock ones (if that's possible). does this all make sense?

any more conflicting information, and im just gunna quit asking questions on this board, and ask people directly what they think (people who have actually been there done that with whatever im asking them about), or do what i should just do and open my haynes manual when possible.

thanks anyways though to everyone that tries to help. i know that its rare that i post answers to people's questions on this board, but i never ever answer anything that i don't know 100% for sure. alright, im done ranting...i should go to bed. im getting kinda tired

nick

BMS2004

yea, the SE cooler is mounter under the rad, thats why I posted the link to that PDF file. You can see the difference.

nick1

okay, well i just read in my haynes manual that although the earlier models do have the oil cooler under the rad as we all knew, the se oil cooler is "behind" the rad. not under it. now by behind im not sure what that means. is it towards the front, or back of the car? im still confused. i do see that the se uses a shorter radiator in the file you posted though. can someone with a stock -se let me know if the oil cooler is in front of or underneath the rad?

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Mazdatrix lists one radiator for all 1983-1985 cars.

Parts Fiche indicates that they are indeed different and that the Oil Cooler mounts UNDER the radiator like the 79-82 cars...

So what the hell is that bracket for in front of the radiator.

IanS

iTrader: (4)

This is confusing. We need someone who has done it to take some detailed pics of what they have done. Or, at least some detailed pics of their stock SE setup, and/or the stock 79-82 setup. This would at least give us some ideas as to what goes where, etc.

Mazdax605

iTrader: (5)

Well what I meant by that is you need to get the proper pedastal for the oil filter.It is a different pedastal for the oil filter in a car with the air-to-oil cooler.I have all the stuff you need to do this conversion,but it is raining here now,and I don't have any shelter to look it all over for you.I have a 85 GSL-SE parts car.I am not sure of the quality of the oil cooler,but I can check it out when the rain starts.

Chris
83 RX-7
74 REPU
04 RX-8
92 Cummins

Hades12

I tore down and sold an SE setup.

the SE rad Looked to be the same size and shape as the GSL 83-85 rads
the SE cooler mounted infront of the Rad, towards the front of the car. It did not attach to the rad.

you replace the Beehive with a filter pedistal. There are aftermarket ones with places for two guage senders, and there are the factory ones. Aftermarket looks like this






The problem with these cars is you never know what someone else did to them. So what you think is stock on one is really parts from another.

nick1

well, that pretty much covers everything.....thanks for the info hades12. now can anyone else back him up in his saying that the 83-85 gsl radiators are the same, as the -se rads, and that the factory mount for the -se cooler is in fact in front of the rad?

so as far as replacing the beehive with an oil filter pedistal, is that a straight forward operation?. so in fact, we should keep the lines that run to the beehive cooler, use them to attach a oil filter pedistal, and cap off, or route together the coolant lines that previously ran to the beehive. then its as simple as running new oil lines, one from the front cover, and one from the rear of the engine, to the new front mount oil cooler (which i hope will easily mount to existing mounts in my gsl, that are the same as the factory mounts for the gsl-se.

i hope i got it now, if anyone else has any comments, please post. THANKS!

nick

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

[QUOTE=Hades12]you replace the Beehive with a filter pedistal. There are aftermarket ones with places for two guage senders, and there are the factory ones. Aftermarket looks like this



QUOTE]


The part that the fancy red piece is sitting on is the mount that you need when you take the beehive cooler off. You can get that off any non-behive engine. Mine came off an FC.

I'm in the process of adding an FMOC and will post pics as I go. It will probably be a week or 2 before I have the lines done. but I should have pics up tomorrow night of the cooler mounted.

The brackets directly in front of the radiator, towards the bottom of it are for the A/C, I believe, I'll have to check another 1st gen to be sure, mine is gone

My setup will require custom oil lines, which I haven't figured out yet. I'm using an S4 cooler, they fit differently than the SE ones, so I will be working around that.

If anyone wants, I'll do a seperate write-up of the process, including whatever mistakes I make along the way.

fitzwarryne

It often pays to search! Out of interest I looked at similar threads listed at the foot of this thread and read that started by rotaryrevn.

The story on that thread was the early 12A came with a fat short 3 core radiator and the oil cooler fitted underneath while the gsl-se 13B had a deeper 2 core radiator and the oil cooler fitted in front. This is perhaps why the Mazdatrix photos of oil coolers apparantly show the se oilcooler as not so tall as the early 12A as it would block air flow to the radiator. I presume later 12A engines when the beehive was fitted had the same radiator as the 13B to standise parts.

This suggests the earlier 12A set up is the better way to go, but for a cheap compromise keep the later 12A radiator, use the se oil cooler in front of the radiator using brackets and lines from the 13B, and a find an early 12A pedestal.

Hades12

The blue part is made to the rear plate, the red part is the pedistal that replaces the Beehive.

nick1

great info. trochoic, definately do a write up on this subject. i know i'd love to see it.


what is the difference in oil cooler size between the early first gen's, the gsl-se, and the lalter ones from the s4's? also, do they all look fairly the same? are they all silver? i'm pretty sure i've seen black ones too, but im not positive.

Manntis

Troic, I'd be interested in archiving your write-up, with pics, in the how-to section of my website. Let me know if you're willing.

Aviator 902S

Ok, I did this swap in my '85 last year, albiet with an '82 "short" rad which mounts the cooler UNDER the rad. The SE system is slightly different in that it uses the same "tall" rad that you already have and mounts the cooler in front of it, but otherwise the procedure is the same. I'm going to try to explain this in a step-by-step format:

1. If your radiator is in good shape you can re-use it, but you'll need the SE oil cooler hoses--- they're longer than the hoses on an '82 or earlier cooler. If the hoses you use came from an '82 or earlier model they'll be too short to reach between the engine and the cooler. This is because with your current rad it will be necessary to mount the cooler in front of the rad rather than under it, and this means the extra 4" or so of hose will be necessary.

2. Here's what you'll need to have on hand prior to starting this swap:

a) an under rad cooler with sufficient-length hoses.

b) a short length of heater hose, a couple of hose clamps and a 2" or 3" length of copper pipe (very inexpensive at hardware store) to splice the coolant hoses together once the beehive is scrapped.

c) A pedestal to mount the oil cooler where the beehive used to be. The stock "pedestal" is more accurately described as a "plate" that simply slips on over the threaded protrusion that the oil filter threads onto, providing a leak-proof base for the filter.

d) Proper open-end wrenches to remove and re-install the oil line fittings. You'll need three of these. The sizes are 23mm, 26mm and (I think) 22mm. Do not attempt to use only one wrench on these--- you need the other one for a back-up to keep the hoses from twisting. Also, a large crescent wrench won't work for this because it is too thick to fit onto the inner fitting.

e) New oil, oil filter (preferrably not Fram or Motomaster) and coolant.

f) 10mm and 12mm open end wrenches to remove that bitch of a beehive.

g) some spare copper or aluminum crush washers that fit under each of the fittings. You'll need at least four new ones, and they're available from mazda for about $1 each. Don't--- DO NOT--- re-use the old crush washers. If you do, you'll find that it will take extra torque on the fittings to make them tight enough that they won't leak, and this extra torque has the damnest habit of cracking oil cooler inlet housings and aluminum front covers. A specialty welding shop can re-weld cracked oil coolers for about $60, but cracked front covers are a major and time-consuming repair that can have expensive consequences if anything is allowed to slip out of alignment.

So let's begin tearing out the old system. I'll assume you've already drained the oil.

1. remove the lower rad hose to drain coolant from the rad. Then remove the coolant drain plug on the engine. It is a 12mm or 14mm bolt that threads into the lowest portion of the cast iron intermediate housing on the drivers' side, just below the dipstick and just above the oil pan.

2. Remove the metal oil tube that runs from the bee hive down to the bottom of the front cover on the drivers' side. This is where you'll need those large open end wrenches.

3. Remove the oil filter so that you'll have more room to work.

4. Disconnect the coolant hoses from the bee hive.

5. Now comes the fun part--- there are three 10mm or 12mm nuts holding the bee hive on to it's mount and they're a bitch and a half to access. The only way is by feel and from up top using a 10mm or 12mm open end or 12-point box end wrench with a short handle, ie: no longer than four inches or so. You'll only have about 10 to 15 degrees of swing angle with the wrench so prepare for some skinned knuckles and to turn the air blue with profanities, but if you persist you'll eventually get the little ***** to come off. Once you've done this it's a simple matter of removing the remaining (and now accessible) nuts holding the rest of the mount on and then discarding it. Congratulations. You've just finished the most difficult part of this task and you'll never have to deal with that ugly ************ of a beehive again. Clutch slave cylinder swaps will now be much easier too.

6) Remove the plug from the bottom of the rear cast iron end housing on the drivers' side. It's a 23mm bolt that threads into the housing just above the oil pan. This is where the longer of the two oil cooler hoses will thread into.

7) Put the front of the car on jack stands and then crawl under and remove the metal skid plate that's under the radiator. This will provide access to the front of the rad so that you can mount the oil cooler. This skid plate is held on by several 10mm bolts.

8) Now you can mount the oil cooler. Locate the mounting brackets (or bolt holes, I'm not sure which on the SE system) and attach the oil cooler to them.

9) Thread the shorter of the two oil cooler hoses into the attach point on the front cover where the metal oil tube used to go. The other end of the same hose should be threaded into the upper fitting on the oil cooler. Be sure to install NEW crush washers on these fittings before installing. Tighten the fittings using a back-up wrench to hold the inner nut on each fitting while you tighten the outer nuts about 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn past finger tight. Do not over-tighten, but make sure they're tight enough that they won't leak. (I don't have an exact torque value for you, but if you've used new crush washers they won't require more than 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn to properly seal).

10) Now thread the longer of the two hoses from the bottom fitting of the cooler into the hole left by the plug you removed from the rear cast iron end housing. Follow same procedures as for the shorter hose.

11) Check the o-rings on the bottom of the pedestal (plate) to confirm they're not damaged or brittle, then slip this pedestal into position over the threaded stud where the oil filter threads on. Then install the oil filter.

11) re-install the coolant drain plug in the engine block and re-connect the lower rad hose.

12) Splice the two ends of the coolant hoses that used to go into the beehive together using the short piece of copper pipe and hose clamps.

13) Re- fill the oil and coolant, mixing the new coolant 50:50 with water.

14) Start the car and let it run until it warms up, checking for oil leaks at the fittings. If any leaks are found, snug up the fittings as necessary to seal them. Then re-install the skid plate.

Congratulations, you are now finished. Hope this helps.

fitzwarryne

Aviator, simply a great write up of a modification, everything you need and need to know is there.

Go to the top of the Class!

nick1

great writeup...that covers everything...nice job.

i saved this and will use it when i do my swap. thanks

manntis, looks like you found what u need for your website!

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

I made the brackets tonite, went to take pics, of course the batteries died.

I'll start a thread later showing the brackets, etc., it will be awhile before I can finish up with the lines.


I must be moving up in the rotory world to get a personal request from you for archival purposes.

Aviator 902S

Thank you. (Takes bow)

smnc

This bad boy needs to be in the archive...

Pele

iTrader: (28)

How bout FC hoses? How do FC hoses compare to SE hoses...

As we've seen that SE hoses are longer than S1/S2 hoses.

Hades12

The connector for the front cover is a different size.

Aviator 902S

OOPS, If I'd known people were going to suggest that I'd have cleaned up some of the more "colorful" words...

Manntis

B - I'd use your write-up if it had pics