how do i install a front mount oil cooler
04-01-05, 03:57 PM
#1
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how do i install a front mount oil cooler
i have an 85 gsl with the stupid beehive oil cooler. i want to throw an air to oil cooler up front, but i need to know how this is done.
to be honest, im not even sure how the system works at all. is there a writeup somewhere? or is it straight forward? can someone let me know what is involved in doing this?
nick
to be honest, im not even sure how the system works at all. is there a writeup somewhere? or is it straight forward? can someone let me know what is involved in doing this?
nick
04-01-05, 04:34 PM
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yeah, i was thinking of doing that...what i really want is a nice sized one i can mount up front, so it kinda looks like im running a intercooler, as if i had a turbo!....i know sounds kinda gay, but what the hell right?
but yes, i know the se uses the fmoc, and also the series 2 uses them as well.
can anyone help me with how to do this?
but yes, i know the se uses the fmoc, and also the series 2 uses them as well.
can anyone help me with how to do this?
04-01-05, 05:24 PM
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Honestly why bother, the 'beehive' is efficient and keeps the oil at a reasonable temperature. Its location allows a better flow of air to the water radiator, are you also going to backdate that?. Remember it was an genuine improvement on the initial set-up. With a FMOC there are often problems of keeping up oil pressure, seal leakage, and stone damage.
As for putting on a FMOC so it looks like you have a turbo with an intercooler- thats pure rice, why bother even going to the trouble of connecting it if all you want is woooo from the uninformed.
As for putting on a FMOC so it looks like you have a turbo with an intercooler- thats pure rice, why bother even going to the trouble of connecting it if all you want is woooo from the uninformed.
04-01-05, 05:25 PM
#5
I dont think there really is a place to mount a FMOC up front there without some work, the stock gsl-se one goes below the radiator (I assume you know this) Ive seen a thread before with someone mounting it with pictures, the thing im not clear about is what lines go where? And what lines to use, I wondered if there is a stainless steel line kit from mazdatrix that can be made to work...
04-01-05, 06:12 PM
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What I am not sure about is whether the radiator sizes are the same since 1978, have a vague memory the height of them was different.
My recollection was that the advised modification was to go custom and have more cores with a smaller cross section radiator allowing room for a FMOC to be fitted. That was also the approach on the Japanese 12A Turbo racers when they added a FMIC. They needed it with a fast oil cooled turbo.
My recollection was that the advised modification was to go custom and have more cores with a smaller cross section radiator allowing room for a FMOC to be fitted. That was also the approach on the Japanese 12A Turbo racers when they added a FMIC. They needed it with a fast oil cooled turbo.
04-01-05, 06:13 PM
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good points about the fmoc possibly blocking the radiator, which would be contradicting what is actually the point of the whole thing....better cooling.
it might be a better idea to use the shorter gsl-se rad and under rad oil cooler. i would think that should swap into the gsl easily? anyone have a comment on that?
as far as making it look like a fmic, or making people believe that it is one, sure that's super ricey....all i really mean by that was that i think it would look "cool" that's all. i would never pretend my car is something better than it is.
nick
it might be a better idea to use the shorter gsl-se rad and under rad oil cooler. i would think that should swap into the gsl easily? anyone have a comment on that?
as far as making it look like a fmic, or making people believe that it is one, sure that's super ricey....all i really mean by that was that i think it would look "cool" that's all. i would never pretend my car is something better than it is.
nick
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04-01-05, 06:15 PM
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good points about the fmoc possibly blocking the radiator, which would be contradicting what is actually the point of the whole thing....better cooling.
it might be a better idea to use the shorter gsl-se rad and under rad oil cooler. i would think that should swap into the gsl easily? anyone have a comment on that?
as far as making it look like a fmic, or making people believe that it is one, sure that's super ricey....all i really mean by that was that i think it would look "cool" that's all. i would never pretend my car is something better than it is.
oh, and about it "being a genuine improvement over the original setup"....yes, that's what you'd think, but i have heard nothing but bad things about the beehive cooler, and how everyone wants to swap to an air to oil cooler...i've never heard someone say taht the beehive is superior to the air to oil cooler ever.
nick
it might be a better idea to use the shorter gsl-se rad and under rad oil cooler. i would think that should swap into the gsl easily? anyone have a comment on that?
as far as making it look like a fmic, or making people believe that it is one, sure that's super ricey....all i really mean by that was that i think it would look "cool" that's all. i would never pretend my car is something better than it is.
oh, and about it "being a genuine improvement over the original setup"....yes, that's what you'd think, but i have heard nothing but bad things about the beehive cooler, and how everyone wants to swap to an air to oil cooler...i've never heard someone say taht the beehive is superior to the air to oil cooler ever.
nick
04-01-05, 06:33 PM
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GAH!!! Misinformation Overload!!!
*head explodes*
Either that or all the replies to this thread are April Fool's jokes...
I don't celebrate April Fools, so here's the skinny:
The GSL-SE uses the SAME radiator as any 84/85 car... The tall type. If you look on your 85's body, just in front of the radiator is a bracket. This is for the GSL-SE oil cooler. Bolt to that.
The beehive sucks ***, and is just good enough to cool a stock engine. Soon as you begin to mod the engine, you'll probably see oil temps climb.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/b6.htm
http://www.mazspeed.com/coolingsystem.htm
Put the oil cooler in... HOOK IT UP! If you want a fake intercooler, trade the 7 in for a Civic or a Neon or a Crappalier...
*head explodes*
Either that or all the replies to this thread are April Fool's jokes...
I don't celebrate April Fools, so here's the skinny:
The GSL-SE uses the SAME radiator as any 84/85 car... The tall type. If you look on your 85's body, just in front of the radiator is a bracket. This is for the GSL-SE oil cooler. Bolt to that.
The beehive sucks ***, and is just good enough to cool a stock engine. Soon as you begin to mod the engine, you'll probably see oil temps climb.
Originally Posted by Mazdatrix's web site
The water-to-oil coolers used on 83-85 12A's do not work all that well, and are not recommended for modified engines.
Originally Posted by MazSpeed's Tech articles section on Cooling systems. Author: Tom Turner
Why do I need an oil cooler?
The Mazda rotary engine uses engine oil to cool the inside of the rotor. They have to do this because the rotor has a large surface area exposed to combustion heat. You must have a good oil cooler to get rid of this heat. The 1981 thru 1983Correction, 1983-1985 model RX-7s that had the oil to water heat exchanger located under the oil filter do not remove enough heat from the oil for modified high power engines. Mazda did that oil to water heat exchanger just to try and save a few bucks; they later abandoned that idea and went back to the traditional oil to air style oil cooler. If you have an '83 to '85 model with the 12A engine that still has the oil to water heat exchanger under the oil filter, convert it to the oil to air style cooler. Everyone needs the aluminum oil cooler that hangs under the radiator that you see on all 1982 and earlier Mazdas, and on '84 & '85 GSL-SE Mazdas with the fuel injected 13B engine. You can get every thing you need from a junkyard. Clean it all out good before you use a junkyard one, because you don't want to put someone else's blown engine pieces in your oil system. Keeping your oil cool can also make your water system run 10 degrees cooler too. The 1983-1985 12A engine oil to water heat exchanger does not cool the oil enough for high performance applications. It is just barely marginal for stock motors. This is so important, that I can't say it enough: use the type oil cooler that hangs in the airflow underneath the radiator.
The Mazda rotary engine uses engine oil to cool the inside of the rotor. They have to do this because the rotor has a large surface area exposed to combustion heat. You must have a good oil cooler to get rid of this heat. The 1981 thru 1983Correction, 1983-1985 model RX-7s that had the oil to water heat exchanger located under the oil filter do not remove enough heat from the oil for modified high power engines. Mazda did that oil to water heat exchanger just to try and save a few bucks; they later abandoned that idea and went back to the traditional oil to air style oil cooler. If you have an '83 to '85 model with the 12A engine that still has the oil to water heat exchanger under the oil filter, convert it to the oil to air style cooler. Everyone needs the aluminum oil cooler that hangs under the radiator that you see on all 1982 and earlier Mazdas, and on '84 & '85 GSL-SE Mazdas with the fuel injected 13B engine. You can get every thing you need from a junkyard. Clean it all out good before you use a junkyard one, because you don't want to put someone else's blown engine pieces in your oil system. Keeping your oil cool can also make your water system run 10 degrees cooler too. The 1983-1985 12A engine oil to water heat exchanger does not cool the oil enough for high performance applications. It is just barely marginal for stock motors. This is so important, that I can't say it enough: use the type oil cooler that hangs in the airflow underneath the radiator.
Put the oil cooler in... HOOK IT UP! If you want a fake intercooler, trade the 7 in for a Civic or a Neon or a Crappalier...
04-01-05, 06:48 PM
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oh my god im no ricer. unless you think that since i like the look of a fmoc....
so now that we've settled that its better than the bee hive which i already knew, can anyone please answer my original question....how is it done?
so now that we've settled that its better than the bee hive which i already knew, can anyone please answer my original question....how is it done?
04-01-05, 06:54 PM
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i had no idea!. i didn't know they mounted up looking like that in the stock position. i sure hope my car has the mounts to be able to do this. that looks great.
by the way, what size wheels and tires are you running, and what is the offset? what suspension do you have and does it rub at all? looks good!
any more pics of your car?
by the way, what size wheels and tires are you running, and what is the offset? what suspension do you have and does it rub at all? looks good!
any more pics of your car?
04-01-05, 07:08 PM
#15
Hello guys,
I am new here,but have had some experience in mounting a air-oil cooler on my 83 RX-7.What I did was get a complete unit from an 86 RX-7 at the bone yard,and mounted it complete with the lines in front of the stock radiator.What I had to do was cut a pretty good size notch in the side panel the the radiator mounts on to allow the lines to travel to the cooler(they come into the side of the 86 cooler instead of the rear of the end tank like the GSL-SE),and I also had to bend the hard line that goes to the rear of the engine some so that it cleared some of the stuff in the way.I then removed the water-to-oil cooler,and capped off the coolant lines that went to it.It is a pretty easy job,and was a bit easier for me to do because I had already moved my battery to the storage bin in the rear passengers side.I am pretty sure it can be done with the stock battery location and tray,but it is easier with the battery out of the way.I will try to get some pics of it soon.I did this mod 4-5 years ago,and I have yet to have any leaks,and it does not block the radiator at all.I mounted the cooler using a couple of brackets mouted on the round cross member in the front end.The oil cooler cost me $25 at the bone yard.If you can do it ditch that lousy water-to-oil cooler.Good luck.
Chris
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I am new here,but have had some experience in mounting a air-oil cooler on my 83 RX-7.What I did was get a complete unit from an 86 RX-7 at the bone yard,and mounted it complete with the lines in front of the stock radiator.What I had to do was cut a pretty good size notch in the side panel the the radiator mounts on to allow the lines to travel to the cooler(they come into the side of the 86 cooler instead of the rear of the end tank like the GSL-SE),and I also had to bend the hard line that goes to the rear of the engine some so that it cleared some of the stuff in the way.I then removed the water-to-oil cooler,and capped off the coolant lines that went to it.It is a pretty easy job,and was a bit easier for me to do because I had already moved my battery to the storage bin in the rear passengers side.I am pretty sure it can be done with the stock battery location and tray,but it is easier with the battery out of the way.I will try to get some pics of it soon.I did this mod 4-5 years ago,and I have yet to have any leaks,and it does not block the radiator at all.I mounted the cooler using a couple of brackets mouted on the round cross member in the front end.The oil cooler cost me $25 at the bone yard.If you can do it ditch that lousy water-to-oil cooler.Good luck.
Chris
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04-01-05, 07:24 PM
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hey, great info..thanks! and welcome to the forums!
if it is true that my gsl already has brakets to mount the -se cooler, than that is exactly what i am going to do. i still need to know, however how to hook the thing up....do i simply re-use the lines that run to the beehive unit, and re-route them to the air to oil cooler? this is what i need to know!...
nick
if it is true that my gsl already has brakets to mount the -se cooler, than that is exactly what i am going to do. i still need to know, however how to hook the thing up....do i simply re-use the lines that run to the beehive unit, and re-route them to the air to oil cooler? this is what i need to know!...
nick
04-01-05, 07:29 PM
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The reality is that the beehive is adequate for any streetported engine, even operating as I do on long trips in 100 degree heat. The crucial factor is replacing your oil on a regular basis and always using good quality oil rated for your operating conditions. Modern oils do not break down with high heat, and it would be extremely rare for oil temperature to be higher than ten degreea above water temperature.
However, if you are going to seriously modify your engine. then up grade your oil cooler along with all other critical component.
However, if you are going to seriously modify your engine. then up grade your oil cooler along with all other critical component.
04-01-05, 08:09 PM
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I know there has been alot of talk about coolers (yes I searched). And I know many say "only use the Mazda coolers" for one reason or another. One of the main reasons being the "turbolators" or strings of metal inside the tubes which mixes the oil inside so it does not form an outer layer that insulates the core. However, most aftermarket oil coolers have these turbolators in them.
Bottom line is I gotta believe there is a reasonably priced aftermarket oil cooler to perform this function. That said, has anyone here bought an aftermarket cooler and found it to be adequate? If so what is the model of it? I simply would rather put a new piece on than flush out some old piece of crap........
Bottom line is I gotta believe there is a reasonably priced aftermarket oil cooler to perform this function. That said, has anyone here bought an aftermarket cooler and found it to be adequate? If so what is the model of it? I simply would rather put a new piece on than flush out some old piece of crap........
04-01-05, 08:21 PM
#20
Burning Oil-Grinding 3rd
to do the Switch Just grab everything from a 79 - 82 car.
you would want the Oil cooler.
Fat Radaitor, with shroud.
and the filter Pedistal.
The pedistal does not have to be changed but It does make it look a lot nicer.
I have an oil cooler with lines for sale if you want to buy one.
you would want the Oil cooler.
Fat Radaitor, with shroud.
and the filter Pedistal.
The pedistal does not have to be changed but It does make it look a lot nicer.
I have an oil cooler with lines for sale if you want to buy one.
04-01-05, 09:02 PM
#21
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okay....i just found out that apparently the gsl-se oil cooler will mount up to my gsl...no need to modify my rad, or swap to a earlier setup. this is what im going to do. so what i need is a gsl-se oil cooler.
i still need for someone to give me the info i really need which is "how do i install this oil cooler"? do i just re-route my current lines to the new oil cooler? or is there more to it?
i still need for someone to give me the info i really need which is "how do i install this oil cooler"? do i just re-route my current lines to the new oil cooler? or is there more to it?
04-01-05, 09:14 PM
#22
Burning Oil-Grinding 3rd
There is more to it.
Your current setup has hard lines. You will need to remove them and replace with the SE lines.
One note. The SE coolers are know to crack, and are some what harder to get.
Your current setup has hard lines. You will need to remove them and replace with the SE lines.
One note. The SE coolers are know to crack, and are some what harder to get.
04-01-05, 09:59 PM
#23
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do the se lines attach to the engine the same way the original gsl lines attach?
so what i need is original gsl-se cooler lines, and the cooler itself...and it will mount up to my gsl, and the lines will attach to the engine?. how does it work? does one line go to an oil pump, and the other somewhere on the motor?
i really appreciate the insight
so what i need is original gsl-se cooler lines, and the cooler itself...and it will mount up to my gsl, and the lines will attach to the engine?. how does it work? does one line go to an oil pump, and the other somewhere on the motor?
i really appreciate the insight
04-01-05, 10:55 PM
#24
There is currently a hard line with a banjo bolt that runs from the rear drivers side of the engine to the front cover of the engine on the drivers side.You will remove this hard line,and the air-to-oil cooler lines attach at those points.the banjo at the raer isn't too hard to remove,but if I remember right the one on the front cover is tough.with the proper tools and some paitience it is pretty straight forward,but like others have said the SE oil cooler is prone to cracking,and hard to come by.Also you should remove the water-to-oil cooler and replace with a proper oil cooler mount.Good luck with the install.I will try to get some pics of my setup.It was a truly cheap DIY,and well worth it.
Chris
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Chris
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04-01-05, 11:09 PM
#25
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"Also you should remove the water-to-oil cooler and replace with a proper oil cooler mount"
sorry i don't understand this? what am i replacing with a proper oil cooler mount? or are you talking about tne air to oil cooler mount. i am hoping to mount it to brakets the apparently exist on my gsl? the same brackets that the gsl-se uses.
slowly but surely i am getting all my answers!!!!
what about using an aftermarket air to oil cooler? is this possible?
"Also you should remove the water-to-oil cooler and replace with a proper oil cooler mount"
sorry i don't understand this? what am i replacing with a proper oil cooler mount? or are you talking about tne air to oil cooler mount. i am hoping to mount it to brakets the apparently exist on my gsl? the same brackets that the gsl-se uses.
slowly but surely i am getting all my answers!!!!
what about using an aftermarket air to oil cooler? is this possible?