Bigbird

Hello,

I just got a 1984 RX-7 GSL 5spd. It has, around 90k miles, one owner (that I know), the engine starts and revs great, no leaks, inspected.

The car however, needs a new clutch, someone who did not know how to drive 5spd drove the car, and apparently killed the clutch. Right now the car will not engage in any gear, the clutch pedal is soft and there is absolutely no feeling of the clutch in the pedal, as if the clutch is not there.

I am wondering wether the problem is solely the clutch, and also, how hard would it be to install a new clutch in the car? Anything tricky or just your basic install?

Is this car reliable? I need a daily driver, short commuter, you guys have more experience, does it perform well as a daily commuter with so many miles?

Thank you, looking forward to reading the replies, I am an RX7 newbie, would like to learn more.

Sterling

The bad driver has worn down the clutch, and overheated the pressure plate and flywheel. Don't worry about the flywheel, but you should probably spring for a new pressure plate.
(Mixed opinions as to whether you should just "always" replace the pressure plate along with the clutch or not.)

This job can take you six hours if you're well equiped in the tools and lift dept, and almost a pro.
Elsewise, it can take three time as long.
So average that out, and multiply it by your hourly income. If the number is lots higher than what it would cost to have it done, then just have it done.
I did my own.
It sucked! But I have better confidence that it'll go easier next time.

ANYWAY!...Back to you and your deal;
I don't think that anything else was ruined as a result of someone slipping miserably the clutch as the drove...That is to say - Clutch wise.
They no doubt burned the temper out of the pressure plate surface, possibly the spring fingers, and probably warped it as well. If you were looking for super performance, I would suggest having the flywheel resurfaced, but it should be fine.

However, what I would be concerned with is the very real possibilty that the bad driver on more than one ocassion crammed the gear lever, and so I don't doubt that your synchros are probably at best having tolerated just about all the abuse they're gonna be good for. You'll have to be ginger with the tranny, and you'll probably find that one gear is a bit sticky to get into-outof.
These guys can tell you exactly which one it'll be, too! (I don't know.)

The Rx-7 is a complicated toy because the emissions control is kind of complicated. It's "just before" everything went computer. There is a computer in it, but by todays standards, it's nothing more than a bitty switch!
So when everything is set right, you are good to go. Heed the warning, "Do NOT overheat your rex!". That's the Mazda rotarys 'Achilles heel'.
Keep clean Castrol GTX 10-30, NGK plugs in her, new fuel filter and air filter right off the bat, and all should be good.

Few members here are left stranded for long. We'll almost always get to the source of someones car ills.

Good luck, and welcome!

Bigbird

Thank you,

And I am looking forward on working on this car. I pick it up tommorow, hopefully a new clutch kit will take care of all issues. I hope nothing else is broken, ahem ahem, like the gears! -

FJ

Nice Welcome post, Sterling!

Welcome, Bigbird.

Sterling, I was going to suggest hydraulics, but if he can't shift into any gear he's going to have to remove the tranny; you've covered the bases.
But it reminded me: how did you make out with the clutch on your new '85GS?

Sorry to interrupt, Bigbird...Good Luck.

-John.

Bigbird

Could you guys suggest where I can promptly order a full clutch kit (for example like ACT, pressure plate, case and etc) for my 84? Thanks.

And by the way, the gears shift just fine, its just that the lack of clutch makes it somewhat interesting

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Go with Mazdatrix or your local import tuner (if he can score a better deal...) and get a Centerforce Dual-Friction clutch...you'll never have to worry about it again, even as you start to modify the engine for more power and rear tires for more bite...

stinkfist

SIX HOURS!!!.. I don't see why it would take more than an hour and a half for anyone who has done it before. 3 hours tops for a first timer.

It sounds more like a hydrolic problem to me than a clutch problem. If it was the clutch you would still be able to move the trans into gear and could probably make the car move with a lot of slipping. Look at your clutch master and slave cylinder for leaks. I bet that is your problem. Can you shift gears when the car is not running?

Never change a clutch disc without a pressure plate unless you want shitty performance. It will slip when you drive agressive. The pressure plate is a spring and wears out just like the ones in your suspension. We all know what 15 year old springs feel like!

Mike

Bigbird

Okay guys, I just picked up the car, its in my driveway. Here's an update on the clutch situation.

The clutch pedal feels normal, stiff. The gear lever moves fine through all the gears, however, with/or without the clutch pressed it won't stall out, jump or engage in any gear.

The above post makes me doubt a clutch malfunction now. I haven't gone through a thorough underhood inspection yet, but do you think a broken pump can produce the above issue?

FJ

Hi. When you said "will not engage in any gear" in your original post, I thought you meant it would not shift into gear.

What I would check:
If the hydraulics are bad, the slave rod will not extend and push the release fork far enough. If you have someone push the clutch pedal in while you watch (or use a piece of wood to hold the pedal down), the slave rod should extend about 3/4". I had measured mine and from the shift fork to the edge of the boot on the rod (the edge nearest the cylinder) was 4.5cm (~1.75") at rest and 6cm (~2.4") with the pedal down.

If yours does not extend that far, or does but retracts over time even with the pedal held down, the problem is in the hydraulics.
If it does extend and stays there, the problem has to be in the clutch itself.

Also, there is no pump: just pedal, master cylinder, hose and slave cylinder.

-John.

Bigbird

Okay, I am a real mazda newbie. I had someone push the clutch in, but I failed to see anything moving around the clutch. Maybe I am not looking at the right thing? Does anyone have a picture or any tips?

FJ

I don't have a scanner for pics, I'm afraid. But the slave is mounted on the transmission, just behind the oil filter and below the firewall. The rod extends to the rear and engages an arm which goes into the bell housing through a rubber boot. You'll see a hose coming from the slave up to a hard line, which then goes to the clutch master cylinder.

The part that should move is the rod and arm, under the firewall.

-John.

Bigbird

Hmmmm... Now I believe that I was looking at the right thing, but nothing seemed to move. I am going to do a more thorough investigation tommorow, but what do you think the next step is? I should check the fluid in the master/slave, could be empty completely for all I know.

stinkfist

Hmm.... FJ is right about the hydrolic stuff. But I'm wondering if there is not something more serious here. You say you can go through all the gears while its running and nothing happens?

If this is the case there are 2 things thaty I can think of that would cause this.



A totally decentigrated (I mean gone) clutch disc. Not likely, but if the PO Really abused it, it could happen.

Something majorly fucked up in the trans. Like a broken input shaft or shifter linkage.

If you just had no hydrolics, you would be able to run through all the gears while the car is off but you could not get it in gear with the car running.

Still check your fluid level in the master cylinder and look for any leaks around the master and slave and along the line.

Mike

Bigbird

There is a REALLY REALLY high chance of the entire clutch being disintegrated. The car was driving fine until a girl that did not know how to drive 5spd got behind the wheel, most likely the clutch was old and finally went completely.

Or atleast, I am praying that it is the clutch and nothing serious, I kinda want this car to drive

Sterling

-Have'nt torn it apart yet, but the hydraulics do work. I really don't know. Have'nt had alot of time.


By Stinkfist-

"SIX HOURS!!!.. I don't see why it would take more than an hour and a half for anyone who has done it before. 3 hours tops for a first timer."

Well yee-******-ha, Stinkfist. Did you get to play around Daddys mechanic shop when you were growing up? Most of us did not, and so I was giving our new friend what I thought to be a ******* REASONABLE amount of time.

Congradulations to you, for being able to do a whole clutch job in only an hour and a half.
However, I choose not to be the ******* who disappoints someone new by minimalizing the effort required for fixing something.

EDIT:
If you check out Stinkfists profile, you'll see that he's a "Jaguar Technican".
As a "Jaguar Technican", you've no doubt seen the shop manuals. How long does it say it should take on the "easiest to work on" model Jaguar to replace the clutch, pressure plate, and fluid - That is, for a technican?

FJ

I agree. And that's why I gave the measurements for the slave rod extension: the only other reason that I could see, other than something snapped in the clutch or shifter itself (in which case, you'll find it when you remove the transmission), is if the slave is seized in the extended position. What would the pedal feel like if it was? I would expect it to stay on the floor, but watching and measuring the slave rod extension would tell you for sure.

Here is a picture of the slave cylinder from the mazdatrix site, just so you know you're looking at the right doodad (sp? )


-John.

Bigbird

LOL @ Sterling

Well, unfortunately I have to work all day tommorow, but hopefully on saturday, I will push the car into the garage and lift it up, give it a full inspection, check and measure the "doodads". I just really hope that the clultch is at fault, praying, hopefully measuring the rods will give me a clue as to wether something is more serious.

FJ

Is the slave in the picture what you were looking at previously? You measure it's extension from under the hood, takes a few minutes ... unless you've just had enough for now.

-John.

stinkfist

LOL! Damn! Did I hurt your feelings?

I just thought 6 hours is a crazy amount of time to do a clutch job. Nothing personal. At least not on my end. I said an hour and a half was for someone who has done it before. Not how long it takes me. The last time I did one it took me 45 minutes from the time I pulled it on the lift to the time I cranked the car. I did say it would take more like 3 hours for a newbie.

As far as my spelling of technician. Sorry, I'll change that for you since it bothers you so much.

As far as the Jaguar goes... The only jag to use a manual transmission in decades just came out last year so I haven't had the chance to do one of those yet. I would imagine that it is a real PITA since it is all wheel drive and you have to drop the transfer case and lower the engine to get the trans out.

I'm not sure but there may be some gramatical errors in this post. Feel free to flame.

Mike

Sterling

I might be easy to **** off, but I'm not petty! The mispelling was mine.
It's just that people like you, who can obviously do these things with one eye freshly poked out, and your right hand having been smashed repeatedly with a hammer, havr to take into concideration that someone new may have TEN TIMES the difficulty you have.
I know I did, and I do concider myself mechanically inclined, and relatively inteligent. However, I will grant you that I was dealing with a stubborn flywheel, and no lift (wooden blocks stacked up). But bench pressing even the light Rx-7 transmissions is difficult.

That's all. Nothing personal.

Bigbird

This post is turning funny, but regardless, thanks for the replies. I will investigate tommorow, lift the car up, see whats moving and whats not I'll post my great findings

Bigbird

Hey guys, just wanted to post a little update to see what you think. The plot THICKENS - in a bad way

Unfortunately I did not have time this weekend to lift the car and give it a full extention, to measure the rods and etc and to give it a nice wax. But, I was able to get another clue by accident.

The car is running, in neutral. However, (and I don't think this is normal) if the clutch is not depressed, I am unable to put the shifter into any gear (to grind or stall out like on any other normal car). You can only shift into gear if the clutch pedal is pressed. However, here's the interesting part, if the clutch is NOT pressed, you can only get into REVERSE and grind it. To sum it up, I can't get into any gears but reverse to grind or stall.

So, I am thinking the clutch is just fine and dandy, the problem is rather severe I am afraid. It is not hydraulics or the rods, because when I hold the clutch down I am able to shift to reverse without grinding (but it still will not go anywhere).

What do you guys think? Serious - huh ? Just my luck!

stinkfist

Let me get this straight.

If the car is running, You CAN put it in gear with the clutch pedal pushed IN and the car will NOT go anywhere if you try to start like normal.

Is this true?

Don't worry too much. Even if your trans is busted, you can get them fairly cheap from junk yards or people that have them laying around. I have never payed more than $150 for one and have payed as little as $75. We go through a lot of them on the race car. We always have one spare with us at the track because we have had to change them out several times during a race weekend.

Keep us posted,
Mike

Bigbird

A) The car is running, idling normally

B) Shifter is in NEUTRAL

C) No pedals are pressed

D) I move lever into 1st, it won't go, it won't grind, it won't stall out.

E) I press the clutch in, lever goes into any gear, I try to start moving but it won't go anywhere.

F) I release the clutch, no pedals are pressed

G) I try to move the lever into reverse - it grinds! But once again will not move anywhere.

So this is a busted tranny?

Bigbird

Moral support apreciated