Help removing Lower Control Arms/Steering Knuckle Bolts
05-26-16, 05:29 AM
#28
Ray,
The "A" castle nuts that go on top of the ball joints, while the same thread as the one on the steering linkage, are a thicker nut.
Mine have some external rust deposits, but not not that rusty.
I can reuse mine.
Thanks for your help.
The "A" castle nuts that go on top of the ball joints, while the same thread as the one on the steering linkage, are a thicker nut.
Mine have some external rust deposits, but not not that rusty.
I can reuse mine.
Thanks for your help.
05-26-16, 08:51 AM
#29
I've had only partial success Tim, but I think I got what you need.
On the strut bolts, I have all four of these but they are my only back up set and they appear to be specific to this one use on the car, so I'd rather not let go of any that you don't need since I might need them myself someday. I will send the short front bolt, please let me know if you need any of the others.
On the lower control arm pin bolt that ties it to the front member, I thought it would be easy to remove one of these from the spare front suspension assembly I have on hand:
and it was indeed easy to remove the nut and lock washer to get to the bolt:
however there's a problem - I can't get the bolt out of the assembly! I can turn the bolt with a socket wrench, but when I put the nut back on to protect the end of the bolt and whacked it with a hammer as hard as I dared it wouldn't budge. I don't know if there's a trick to this, but for now that one's not available.
I did however find what looks to be the same bolt in my bolt box, 8 cm long, the number "8" stamped on the head and the same thread as the bolt in the assembly (the nut and lock washer that I removed are installed on the bolt; see the picture below), so I think you'll be ok with that one. I couldn't find a second bolt like this however, so I can't send two.
On the castle nuts, I found two good ones that are probably tie rod end nuts in my nut box. They appear to have the thicker design that you mention however and are identical to the ones that are on my front end assembly, although in much better shape since the ones holding the ball joints on show quite a bit of rust and aren't worth removing, at least for now they are performing a function:
I've noticed that some tie rod ends have smaller castle nuts on them than others, so I suspect the castle nuts on your tie rod ends are just the smaller version - most of the ones I have are taller.
So here is what I currently have ready to go for you, check it out to make sure it will be what you need to get back on the road and let me know if not, I'm sure we can get what you need:
On the strut bolts, I have all four of these but they are my only back up set and they appear to be specific to this one use on the car, so I'd rather not let go of any that you don't need since I might need them myself someday. I will send the short front bolt, please let me know if you need any of the others.
On the lower control arm pin bolt that ties it to the front member, I thought it would be easy to remove one of these from the spare front suspension assembly I have on hand:
and it was indeed easy to remove the nut and lock washer to get to the bolt:
however there's a problem - I can't get the bolt out of the assembly! I can turn the bolt with a socket wrench, but when I put the nut back on to protect the end of the bolt and whacked it with a hammer as hard as I dared it wouldn't budge. I don't know if there's a trick to this, but for now that one's not available.
I did however find what looks to be the same bolt in my bolt box, 8 cm long, the number "8" stamped on the head and the same thread as the bolt in the assembly (the nut and lock washer that I removed are installed on the bolt; see the picture below), so I think you'll be ok with that one. I couldn't find a second bolt like this however, so I can't send two.
On the castle nuts, I found two good ones that are probably tie rod end nuts in my nut box. They appear to have the thicker design that you mention however and are identical to the ones that are on my front end assembly, although in much better shape since the ones holding the ball joints on show quite a bit of rust and aren't worth removing, at least for now they are performing a function:
I've noticed that some tie rod ends have smaller castle nuts on them than others, so I suspect the castle nuts on your tie rod ends are just the smaller version - most of the ones I have are taller.
So here is what I currently have ready to go for you, check it out to make sure it will be what you need to get back on the road and let me know if not, I'm sure we can get what you need:
Last edited by ray green; 05-26-16 at 08:58 AM.
05-26-16, 10:44 AM
#30
however there's a problem - I can't get the bolt out of the assembly! I can turn the bolt with a socket wrench, but when I put the nut back on to protect the end of the bolt and whacked it with a hammer as hard as I dared it wouldn't budge. I don't know if there's a trick to this, but for now that one's not available.
I did however find what looks to be the same bolt in my bolt box, 8 cm long, the number "8" stamped on the head and the same thread as the bolt in the assembly (the nut and lock washer that I removed are installed on the bolt; see the picture below), so I think you'll be ok with that one. I couldn't find a second bolt like this however, so I can't send two.
I did however find what looks to be the same bolt in my bolt box, 8 cm long, the number "8" stamped on the head and the same thread as the bolt in the assembly (the nut and lock washer that I removed are installed on the bolt; see the picture below), so I think you'll be ok with that one. I couldn't find a second bolt like this however, so I can't send two.
If memory serves me correctly, the "8" indicates a grade 8 bolt. I just checked my BD catalog here at my desk and they are available new. At least they were in the ... 2013 winter edition.
05-26-16, 12:12 PM
#31
You raise a good point woodmv, for someone doing really high quality work like Tim is (he's the only person I know who is actually installing NEW lower control arms!) getting all new OEM nuts and bolts would be a very nice option to have, if they are available.
You might want to check into that Tim if you don't mind spending more money, but of course I can send you my used stuff for free.
On the "grade 8" bolt, I think you're right, it indicates a stronger bolt or harder steel or something like that. Most of the bolts in my bolt box have either nothing or a "6" on them, just a few have "8" and only those special bolts that tie the control arm to the strut have a "10".
You might want to check into that Tim if you don't mind spending more money, but of course I can send you my used stuff for free.
On the "grade 8" bolt, I think you're right, it indicates a stronger bolt or harder steel or something like that. Most of the bolts in my bolt box have either nothing or a "6" on them, just a few have "8" and only those special bolts that tie the control arm to the strut have a "10".
05-26-16, 01:26 PM
#32
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
When I did my LCA poly bushings I had to cut those inner bolts, nothing I could do would budge
and it started to deform the crossmember. I cut them out and just got new hadrware at the
local hardware store with the right grade on them. Helps to put a good coating of grease on
them for reassembly in case you need to do this again. It helped me when I swapped in the
RB adjustable LCA recently.
They rust up and fuse to the steel inner sleeve of the OEM bushing which is a lot of surface to
try an break free from rust.
and it started to deform the crossmember. I cut them out and just got new hadrware at the
local hardware store with the right grade on them. Helps to put a good coating of grease on
them for reassembly in case you need to do this again. It helped me when I swapped in the
RB adjustable LCA recently.
They rust up and fuse to the steel inner sleeve of the OEM bushing which is a lot of surface to
try an break free from rust.
05-26-16, 02:49 PM
#33
I went to Mazda this morning.
No help as there system only went back to 86 and I could not locate the pivot bolt or the short bolt in the bottom of the strut from the diagram.
Ray, what you have pictured is exactly what I need.
Thank you.
I don't have the pivot bolt with me but 8cm is the right length.
Include your mailing address inside the envelope. If there is anything I can find locally, I'll send your's back and new ones as well.
On getting out the long pivot bolt, yes I beat it with and without a nut on the threaded end. Mine would not even turn. When moving the LCR up and down, the rubber bushing was turning on the steel insert. I cut the head off on the outside, I cut the threads off on the other side and even drilled out the threaded end. Still it would not budge. Finally got an 4" air cutoff from Harbor Freight ($10) and cut the bolt between the LCR and the crossmember close to the rear. Once through, I could twist the LCR and it came out. I then had to use a long drift to get the remaining piece of bolt out of the crossmember. (My wife truly believes I'm insane.)
No help as there system only went back to 86 and I could not locate the pivot bolt or the short bolt in the bottom of the strut from the diagram.
Ray, what you have pictured is exactly what I need.
Thank you.
I don't have the pivot bolt with me but 8cm is the right length.
Include your mailing address inside the envelope. If there is anything I can find locally, I'll send your's back and new ones as well.
On getting out the long pivot bolt, yes I beat it with and without a nut on the threaded end. Mine would not even turn. When moving the LCR up and down, the rubber bushing was turning on the steel insert. I cut the head off on the outside, I cut the threads off on the other side and even drilled out the threaded end. Still it would not budge. Finally got an 4" air cutoff from Harbor Freight ($10) and cut the bolt between the LCR and the crossmember close to the rear. Once through, I could twist the LCR and it came out. I then had to use a long drift to get the remaining piece of bolt out of the crossmember. (My wife truly believes I'm insane.)
05-26-16, 03:36 PM
#35
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
On getting out the long pivot bolt, yes I beat it with and without a nut on the threaded end. Mine would not even turn. When moving the LCR up and down, the rubber bushing was turning on the steel insert. I cut the head off on the outside, I cut the threads off on the other side and even drilled out the threaded end. Still it would not budge. Finally got an 4" air cutoff from Harbor Freight ($10) and cut the bolt between the LCR and the crossmember close to the rear. Once through, I could twist the LCR and it came out. I then had to use a long drift to get the remaining piece of bolt out of the crossmember. (My wife truly believes I'm insane.)
pain and memory fade but the fact that I still remember it means it was PITA.
05-26-16, 07:05 PM
#36
I just discovered I need to go purchase a 27mm socket and wrench to get the tension rods out to replace the bushings. That will keep me busy for awhile. Still need to get the stabilizer bar bushings in and put the strut back in. Make sure I have the right size cotter pins, and many other things I don't know I need to do yet.
Its a blast when the 18 year old working at McDonald's leans out the drive-through window and knows its an Rx7 and asks the year. Then has to explain in detail to his co-worker what a rotary engine is, and gets it right.
05-27-16, 09:15 AM
#37
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
Thanks Ray.
I just discovered I need to go purchase a 27mm socket and wrench to get the tension rods out to replace the bushings. That will keep me busy for awhile. Still need to get the stabilizer bar bushings in and put the strut back in. Make sure I have the right size cotter pins, and many other things I don't know I need to do yet.
Its a blast when the 18 year old working at McDonald's leans out the drive-through window and knows its an Rx7 and asks the year. Then has to explain in detail to his co-worker what a rotary engine is, and gets it right.
I just discovered I need to go purchase a 27mm socket and wrench to get the tension rods out to replace the bushings. That will keep me busy for awhile. Still need to get the stabilizer bar bushings in and put the strut back in. Make sure I have the right size cotter pins, and many other things I don't know I need to do yet.
Its a blast when the 18 year old working at McDonald's leans out the drive-through window and knows its an Rx7 and asks the year. Then has to explain in detail to his co-worker what a rotary engine is, and gets it right.
scene kids. Same thing happens at Cars and Coffee, but some of the kids are in
their 40s and 50s.
05-28-16, 08:36 PM
#39
Progress.....
Pics of the parts being replaced.
Got the tension rod bushings installed in the brackets today. Set the front thread distance to 10.75mm, and torqued to 85 ft/lbs. However the original nut offset was about 20% more, or closer to 13mm. Being somewhat ignorant of the specifics of suspension geometry and the related parts, I'm going with the FSM specs.
Considering the state of affairs of the old parts, I do expect better handling when this is done.
Pics of the parts being replaced.
Got the tension rod bushings installed in the brackets today. Set the front thread distance to 10.75mm, and torqued to 85 ft/lbs. However the original nut offset was about 20% more, or closer to 13mm. Being somewhat ignorant of the specifics of suspension geometry and the related parts, I'm going with the FSM specs.
Considering the state of affairs of the old parts, I do expect better handling when this is done.
06-05-16, 09:54 PM
#42
Update...............
Got the front wheels back on tonight.
I don't have ramps, so I put it up on blocks.
Thanks to hcaulfield57 for starting the "Front Suspension / Steering Upgrade Options" thread.
And to GSLSEforme for post #49 in the same thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...1096745/page2/
For the tension rods I counted the threads and marked a line with a Sharpie up to the and onto the nut. Picture is reassembled with new bushings.
Done:
Replaced the inner and outer tie rods and idler arm with Moog parts.
Replaced the sway bar and tension rod bushings with Energy from Racing Beat.
Replaced the lower control arms from Mazdatrix.
Re-assembled with Ray bolts.
Bounced it both left and right.
Left to do:
Install the control links.
Torque everything to spec.
Set the toe-in per Ray's "Cheap, easy and accurate toe-in alignment"
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...gnment-863339/
Using calipers I measured the gap between the inner and outer tie rods, left and right, on the old ones I took out. Both measured just under 51mm. So I set the new ones to the same gap as a starting point.
I could not have gotten this far with this place.
Thank you.
Got the front wheels back on tonight.
I don't have ramps, so I put it up on blocks.
Thanks to hcaulfield57 for starting the "Front Suspension / Steering Upgrade Options" thread.
And to GSLSEforme for post #49 in the same thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...1096745/page2/
For the tension rods I counted the threads and marked a line with a Sharpie up to the and onto the nut. Picture is reassembled with new bushings.
Done:
Replaced the inner and outer tie rods and idler arm with Moog parts.
Replaced the sway bar and tension rod bushings with Energy from Racing Beat.
Replaced the lower control arms from Mazdatrix.
Re-assembled with Ray bolts.
Bounced it both left and right.
Left to do:
Install the control links.
Torque everything to spec.
Set the toe-in per Ray's "Cheap, easy and accurate toe-in alignment"
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...gnment-863339/
Using calipers I measured the gap between the inner and outer tie rods, left and right, on the old ones I took out. Both measured just under 51mm. So I set the new ones to the same gap as a starting point.
I could not have gotten this far with this place.
Thank you.
06-07-16, 06:14 PM
#44
First fast left turn and I was amazed.
It never handled that way before, the turn was almost flat and the steering was more responsive. (It had 124k miles on it when it was passed on to me.)
There is a tight S-turn up a hill, on the way home. One of those with a 35mph sign. I took it at 50+. Very nice indeed.
Something I did using Ray's Cheap, easy and accurate toe-in method.
My initial 51mm setting was way off. I could visually see the toe-in.
1. Set the fishing line as directed across each wheel center.
2. Turned the adjuster until the fishing line just touched the rear side of the front tire.
3. Took a Sharpie and marked the adjuster lengthwise.
4. Turned the adjuster until there was a 1 mm gap between the rear side of the tire and the fishing line. Made another mark on the adjuster with the Sharpie. The arc of rotation between the two marks is the amount needed to set the rear side of the tire 1 mm to the outside of the front side.
5. Turn the adjuster in the opposite direction back to the first mark (wheel straight ahead) and continue turning in the same direction an equal amount so that the rear side is now 1 mm to the outside of the front side.
I did this to both sides. The steering wheel was still centered.
Driving today the car tracked straight on the road crown, steering wheel centered and hands off. I'll take that.
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