GSLSEforme

Does moving the trailing adjustment move the mark on pulley at all that you can see? Is distributor holdown bolt in center of slot with leading timing correctly set?

grotto107

Yes it moved for the first time today. Pulley mark moves maybe 1/8 of an inch each way, and the idle will go up and down maybe 200 rpm. That is moving the adjustment all the way in and out.
Holdown bolt is dead center in slot, and leading timing is right on.

GSLSEforme

With timing light onT1 plug wire,can you see the mark advance and retard as you move the trailing vacuum can in and out?

grotto107

Yes. moves about 1/8 inch. As I said, we never could get it to move until today.

grotto107

doesn't seem to move until adjustment is all the way in or out, but I could be mistaken

GSLSEforme

Are those new screws on trailing vac advance?

Take a very closeup picture of distributor body,straight down.

Hold the link that comes into distributor housing from vac advance can and slide can back and forth to be sure link is firmly connected to vac advance can.

Take some closeup pics of ignition coils showing primary wires connected to them.

grotto107

Yes! brand new stainless screws and washers that I installed today. It took 2 of us 45 minutes with a can of pb blaster, a phillips screwdriver, a flat head screwdriver, an impact wrench , and a pair of vice grips to break those soft factory brass screws loose. destroyed the heads, of course.

Will take pics and check vac can linkage tomorrow. No lights in parking lot.

GSLSEforme

Gotcha.

grotto107

dizzy 9-24
Here is closest pic that I could take of the dizzy that had the entire dizzy top in the picture frame.

Dizzy link to vacuum can is connected well and it tight with absolutely no play in linkage. It moves smoothly.

Will address coil wires in my next post, as not to clutter and confuse.

grotto107

Coil #1 pic 2


Coil #1
Coil # 1 wiring pix

Coil # 2 will be shown in next post

grotto107

Coil #2

Coil # 2 picture 2

Coil # 2 "vampire " wire

The red wire or vampire wire goes to a relay on the inner fender. The relay also has another heavy gauge wire going to the positive battery post. I assume that this runs the previous owner"s installation of the esoteric electric fan set-up on the car. Guessing that the vampire wire is the low voltage switch for the relay to kick in the heavy guage wire on the relay.
I haven't been concerned with this wire because the car ran good for the previous owner and ran well for me until a week ago. The car performs the same with the fan on or off.

GSLSEforme

Regarding the vampire tap on leading coil,i understand you're saying it doesn't affect the performance of the car. However,that is not the location to take 12 volts? from because it's not steady 12 volts. The only time that terminal shows a steady voltage is when the key is on but engine not running-and it will not be 12 volts,it'll be 11 something volts because of resistance of old wiring and the long run that circuit takes from the battery to inside the car and back.

Look closely at the terminal it's attached to,that's the negative terminal on the coil and the yellow/blue wire is the return from leading igniter which brings this wire down to near 0 volts to fire the ignition coil. At the very least it's an unstable source of voltage for the relay,more to the point,i'm certain you could see what that install is doing to charge time on that coil with an oscilloscope.It has to have some effect.Hard to tell in pic,the yellow/blue wire connector at coil,is that melted,corroded?

What's going on with the cut and taped wires on the trailing ignition coil? There is a large gauge green? wire there that's not original. It's clear someone has been into this harness,the tape job is not original. Why was this done?This is a possible clue to the wacky trailing ignition timing.
I don't know for sure or if at all these two things i've noticed could be the culprit you're after,at the same time,if something is amiss,it can't be overlooked.Needs some investigation. Can't rule out ignition system as a player if it's not operating correctly.
The fuel pump relay gets its trigger from trailing ignition,the pick up wire is on negative primary terminal on coil-right where that"wiring"is.

grotto107

All of that wiring was done by the previous owner.

Vampire wire. Is there another place under the hood where I could get 12V to trigger that relay? I want to get it off of the coil.

A few days ago when you asked us to shake and gently pull all the wires under the hood, we removed all the coil wires and cleaned up the corrosion/rust from all of the coil connections and the related wires with a wire brush and sandpaper and sprayed everything with electrical cleaner.
That yellow/blue wire connector doesn't appear melted or corroded, but it is definitely shot. Will replace it with an insulated spade connector.

I will check that green wire today and see where it goes

grotto107

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GSLSEforme

I’m on my phone,can’t see the pic very well. Don’t have my glasses with me..
Can you take some pics of distributor where igniter connectors are and of harness from there to where coils are? I can look at them when I get home in a couple hours.

Between the wire for the relay attached to leading coil negative terminal and all the splicing at the coils with non stock wiring,I don’t have much confidence in previous owners wiring.
I suspect he was trying to repair a defect in either leading or trailing ignition and at this point I think the leading and trailing ignition are tied together either deliberately or by accident. I’m going with the former over the latter.

I believe this to be the reason why leading and trailing timing marks are sharing the same yellow mark on pulley. Thoughts are an igniter or pickup coil failure that left car with only leading or trailing ignition.
Two scenarios here,if the trailing ignition failed,the fuel pump wouldn’t run as it gets its trigger from trailing coil as it fires- car would not start and run.
If the leading ignition failed,car would start and run but have very little power,almost unable to drive the car.

Have you downloaded wiring diagrams for your car?
I’ll look for your pics when I get home.

grotto107

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grotto107

Ignitor connections to dizzy

Ignitor harness dizzy end

Ignitor harness coil end pic 2


Ignitor harness coil end pic 2
Yes I have the wiring diagrams. Will study the wiring
I have taken pics of the ignitor and harness back to the coils. I'm guessing that this is what you were wanting. If not, I can take more pics

grotto107

Checked my FSM and cannot find a gray or black wire coming from either coil. Will disconnect it when I get home and check timing.

GSLSEforme

I know neither of those wires are original.I think if you start disconnecting the wiring in place you will no longer have a running car.
Would prefer you to unwrap the tape on the harness to find out what’s been done and follow it back to where those wires are attached to original harness.
Originally the leading coil had black/yellow tracer and yellow/blue tracer. Black/yellow is power and yellow/blue is return from igniter.
Trailing has black/yellow and yellow/green and should have two yellow/green wires.

Originally in the harness that goes between engine and drivers fender well were the four aforementioned wires and pair of black/ yellow wires to power each igniter and another smaller gauge black/ yellow wire that connected to a capacitor on distributor housing.
Also a while/red 10 gauge wire coming from buss on dynamic chamber that originated at alternator,also white/red. This wire goes to main fuse link on fenderwell. The alternator is not original and its wiring needs some attention at some point.I believe the red/white wire will no longer be present in the harness
It was fitted to car to feed the extra draw f cooling fan. How it's wired handicaps it in that it cannot provide its full output to the battery/accessories on car.Looks to be a GM CS series alternator.

grotto107

Coil wire splice
I will do this in 2 posts because I had written the entire post and poof! it disappeared from the board. If it happens again. I'll just have to do half of it again

Tore into the ignitor and main harness. Conclusions:
!. I'm way above my pay grade here
2. I'm severely handicapped because I can get to just about !/2 of that main harness because it's down in there between the compressor and the fuse links. So try to bear with me.
3. You were,of course, exactly right about the previous owner and his wiring and probably right about why he did it.

Black/yellow leads from both coils:
Both of them go down the main harness and disappear.
One black/yellow lead returns from the main harness and enters the ignitor harness
Inside the ignitor harness, it is spliced into 3 yellow/black wires. One goes to the capicator under the dizzy. The other 2 go to the ignitor harnesses. So both ignitors are fed from a single wire.I have attached a pic.

More to follow

grotto107

Leading coil

The yellow/blue return wire (with my new spade connector) enters the ignitor harness and goes straight to the front ignitor harness at the dizzy(as I think it should)

Trailing coil

Here's a mess.
The Ignitor return terminal connector has 2 wires coming out of it.
A gray shielded wire that goes down into the main harness and disappears
And one yellow/green wire . It splits into 2 yellow/green wires. One goes into the main harness and disappears. The other goes into the ignitor harness and terminates at the ignitor harness closest to the alternator.

Alternator wire
the 10 gauge white and red wire is there.It leaves a connector on the dynamic chamber, runs down the ignitor harness and enters the main harness and disappears.

GSLSEforme

That there’s what I call a spaghetti dinner...
John,how’s your soldering skills?
Can you take a pic of igniter plugs and how far back the wiring goes unmolested? Can you take a pic of how far you have the harness opened up back toward fenderwell?

grotto107

I am one soldering MF. Used to repair and rebuild guitar amps. Of course I did it on my bench in my air conditioned den with all the best equipment and lighting that I had then, and not under a car hood in a hot parking lot with a 100 foot drop cord and a pistol-grip soldering iron.

Will take pix tomorrow

grotto107

Ignitor end of ignitor harness

Coil end of harnesses pic 1

Coil end of harnesses pic 2


Coil end of harnesses pic 3
the ignitors are wired correctly at the ignitor end of the harness until they reach the yellow/black splice. about 4-6 inches from the connectors.

GSLSEforme

Check your PMs.