devitek

Problem: Car no longer starts without assistance, doesn’t have enough electrical power.

Symptoms:

1. For over a year, turn signals have not worked properly. Fix has been simply hitting the steering wheel until they pick up again. Problem is extremely intermittent.
2. A week ago, after taking the car to the gas station, I noticed that at idle the idiot lights were all dimly lit and there seemed to be a slight buzzing sound coming from under the dash. Voltmeter, which is usually at around 14V with the car running, was sitting at 12V. Revving the engine seemed to correct this, and the gauge went back up to 14V.
3. The following days, this problem seemed to come and go. Nothing additional seemed to happen.
4. A few days ago, while driving at night (with lights on), at around 5K RPM the car started to sputter and lose power. Bringing it back down seemed to be fine, but could not do any hard acceleration.
5. Started noticing that the use of turn signals was diminishing, reverse lights and brake lights were showing a notable hit to the voltage, but it would always come back up afterwards. At this point, the voltmeter is never showing much above the 12V mark.
6. Yesterday, drove the car for a 20+ mile trip. Shut the car off for a few minutes, but when attempting to start the solenoid just clicked and voltage dropped down to the bottom of the gauge. Had to push start the vehicle.
7. Car only made it a few miles before the voltage started dropping again, sputtering occurred, and the vehicle ceased to run at all. Had to call for a jump start.
8. Jump start allowed me to drive the car for about 10-15 more miles before above problem repeated. Had to call again for a jump start.

Items checked:

1. Within the past 2 months, the starter has been replaced. Checked all leads to the starter for loose fits, none were found. Starter bolts were checked and tightened at this time.
2. Checked leads to alternator, which all appear to be free of corrosion and are tight fitting. No leads removed or reseated.
3. With engine running, all fuses under the dash have been systematically pulled and replaced, but no noticeable changes to the voltmeter. All said fuses are in good working order with no corrosion.
4. Same test was done with engine off but ignition on, no difference.
5. Battery terminals checked for corrosion or loose fit, none found. Terminals not removed or reseated at this time.
6. Carburetor replaced within the last 4 months, all electrical components connected to carb have been disconnected temporarily but no difference has been evident.
7. Noticed during starter examination that many wires on the drivers side of the engine are oil-coated, as well as some found under the center of the vehicle. Cannot determine if these have suffered any damage due to the oil.

I'm open to suggestions on this. Later today, I'm picking up a multimeter so that I can test things more directly (how have I managed this long without one?) Until then, any ideas you can shoot me will be greatly appreciated.

darkfrost

iTrader: (1)

Get the alternator tested at a local parts store, it almost sounds like its starting to go out on you. They test for free, so you have nothing to lose.

Rogue_Wulff

Sounds like an alternator or voltage regulator failing. On 79's, the VR is external, 80 and newer use an internal. I would suggest pulling the alt, and having it tested.

devitek

I feared the alternator, as I just replaced it a year ago with a rebuilt from VB...by the way, I got my starter and alternator from them, and if the alternator has to be replaced that will be 2 for 2. I really don't trust their parts, and this would just confirm it. The car is about 30 miles away, so I'll have to wait till tomorrow to get it tested.

The car is an '84 GS, so it's an internal regulator for sure.

Rogue_Wulff

I dunno who builds VB's starters and alt's, but I prefer to stick with a local supplier, for ease of warrenty replacements. Surely there is a local parts store that carries quality parts, with a quality warrenty close to where you are.
I would bet they are even cheaper than dealing with VB, who has only a 90 day warrenty.

devitek

Yes, I'll have to check the local guys out. Can't buy anything, 'cause Sprint fired me and now I'm broke, but I can at least make sure the part is available for when I can get it. Bah.

devitek

Ok, checked the local guys. Autozone has em for about $100, but all of them have to order it in. Before I go jumping the gun, though, is there anything else I should be checking here? I failed to mention earlier that when running the engine now, hood up, I can hear a clicking sound, kinda rhythmic, it fades in and out. I really couldn't tell if it came from the alternator, although I don't think it did. Is it possibly a problem with fusible links?

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

Either the battery or the alternator is shot.

devitek

Well, the battery does hold a charge, and has checked out ok so far. It's fairly new. If it is the alternator, well, she's out of commission for awhile I guess. That's the way it works with these cars...gotta love em!

kgray

Advance Auto had my alt for 29.99 brand new...

devitek

You must have a different year. As I understand it, there's some differences between the 84-85 and earlier years.

lovintha7

If it were me, I wouldn't buy an alternator from an aftermarket company. I seem to have nothing but problems with them. Sure, they work fine, until the warranty is up, then they crap out on me. I suggest OEM parts, as they're completely rebuilt, not just the brushes and regulator being replaced. OEMs replace all the guts, and use just the casing in most cases, whereas aftermarket companies use anything that fits in a certain "criteria", and replaces what is not in "spec".

kgray

depending on how much you want to spend...
mazda will charge you a load and a half

enigma32

Can't they just test the alternator for you?

devitek

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they can just test it. Of course, it's raining today, so I'll have to wait until that subsides to get in there (what I wouldn't give for a garage...).

85rotarypower

Check your battery terminals. I mean check EVERYTHING about them. Not just the connection to the battery itself. Check where the wires enter the battery connector. I just recently had a major corrosion problem on the battery cables of my t-bird where the car wouldn't even turn over. The connections all looked good, but I ended up having to cut a little off the battery cables and restrip them to get a good connection. My 7 also had the same kinda problem. You should also check all the connections at the fusible links.

devitek

Sounds like a plan. I never thought to check the wires at the connectors, so that could be the problem. Corrosion is a big concern, as my hood is sorta vented and water can get in the engine bay and on some components. When I get out there, I will check that and still pull the alternator for testing.

Kentetsu

Yeah, have the alternator tested for sure. Where in the midwest are you? Local junkyards can get me a replacement for around $20.00 For whatever reason, your alternator is not charging your battery. Now, whether that's due to a faulty alternator, battery, or other miscellaneous glitch is the question. Clean the connections on the starter too, and check the power feed to the fusible links while you're at it. Good luck!

devitek

Thanks, I will check it all tomorrow. I'm in Kansas, none of the yards around here even remember what a 7 looks like anymore. I saw one about a year ago when I needed a new door handle, but it was stripped pretty bad. Around here, it's all luck. Believe me, if I can get one for $20, then I'm down with it. I bet I could make an earlier model work, just some different connections. Tomorrow will reveal something, I'm sure...so long as it doesn't take too long, gotta shop for wedding rings tomorrow too.

devitek

Ok, pulled the alternator, had it checked. It's bad. Might try the local pick and pull, but if that doesn't pan out I'm prolly gonna have to get rid of this car. Can't afford the monthly setbacks plus the gas these days.

devitek

Found a '79 at the local auto yard with the alternator intact. Pulled it and the voltage regulator, but now I'm not sure how to do this. I've found posts with people upgrading and eliminating the external regulator, but I need to do the opposite, at least for the time being. Does anyone know what would need to be done? Oh, and I picked up the leading coils from a 2nd gen while I was there...different story.

So, does anyone have an idea on how to do this?

Kentetsu

Glad you found an alternator, sorry its not an exact replacement. Do you mind if I ask how much it set you back? I have an extra alternator from an '83 or '84, and I have an extra transistor trick box (original design) laying around now too, which could go nicely with your new 2nd gen coil pack. PM me if interested in either of those and we can work something out.

devitek

Cool, thanks. I've been going over the wiring diagrams, and although they are a bit confusing, I think this can be done. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this stuff, but logically if one comes with the regulator inside and the other out, ultimately they should connect similarly once it gets to my original wiring harness. I dunno, I don't know all the symbols anymore, but this whole retrofit thing is right up my alley. If anyone has any ideas, let's try em. People are always taking newer parts and adapting them to our vehicles...even though what I'm trying to do defies common thinking, we should be flexible enough to be able to do it.

devitek

Well, I couldn't figure out a way to do it. Went back to the junk yard to see if I could find one that was close enough. Found one, don't know what it was off of, but it had a different pulley. So, went to the local auto store to have the pulleys swapped and decided to have this one tested while I was there. Tested bad. I searched the entire lot at the junk yard and only found one alternator that I could work with, and it was no good. So, the car is dead. I was so looking forward to setting up the 2nd gen coil I found, but now it looks like I just have to wait until I can afford a new alternator. I suppose there's no harm in getting one for an earlier model, since they are about half the price of the one I should be getting. I don't like having a 50 amp compared to the 60 amp one I had, but what else can I do? I just wish I knew of another local yard to check for things like this, it would save me alot of trouble in the future as the one I'm going to is like 30 miles away.

At any rate, does anyone know of a place that will buy these core alternators? That might help a bit in my quest.

Pele

iTrader: (28)

S4 RX-7 (1986-1988) will just drop right in.
I'm willing to bet that other cars 1988 and before have the same alternator. Try a B series pickup truck or another Mazda vehicle. In fact, waltz into the junkyard with that old alternator and compare. Many makes share parts. It's all Nippon Denso or Mitsubishi.

S5 RX-7 (1989-1991) Will fit with minor wiring changes (Two wires)
I know my 1989 B2600i 4x4 truck alternator is exactly the same as an S5 RX-7 alternator. (Hence my assumption that the earlier years had similar alternators... So if you're willing to splice two wires, go for a 1989 or later Mazda vehicle of any type.

There is one alternative. You can keep charging your battery and driving for a range of about an hour or so. I did this with a Honda I had once. I had a lifetime warranty on the alternator, but couldnt find the paperwork for a week. So I kept running it with no alternator, jjust charging the battery when I got home and push starting ti to conserve power.