buldozr

iTrader: (1)

Finally found out wtf my car was doing, I have been pulling hair for two weeks trying to figure this one out, at first I thought it was ignition, then felt it was fuel, then decided that maybe the ecu took a dump on me... finally decided to start wiggling wires and whalla... injector clips crumbled. I will have to hack one off and take it up to the parts house, also noticed that when I wiggled the connector for water temp, it would also make the car die. Autozone and Oreilly's computers show not available(I know damn well they have them but the bastards wont take the extra two minutes to let me in the backroom to find them). My question is, is their another application(year/make/model) that will pull up the correct pigtails? also, is the injector pigtail the same as the coolant one(didnt take a very good look at it to tell) Thanks guys.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yeah i know they have em, try something like a tranzmaro or a late 80's bmw

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

2-17427 is the number for the clips available through Napa.

If you don't have a Napa near you then the brand is Echlin and they can cross reference it. Should work for the CTS also is I remember correctly but try one first.

buldozr

iTrader: (1)

found them! I would like to make a suggestion to anyone doing this kind of repair, use a soldering iron(if 110v power not available, use a butane BBQ grill torch/lighter) and get some heat shrink rap(not electrical tape). When doing this, please be mindful with your solder and soldering iron(in my case, the torch) due to the fuel lines are directly below where your working. My suggestion is not only to lay a towel over the lower intake manifold but also have something a little more rigid and less susceptible to flames(I used a cardboard package from my new little wire stripper) so not to drop a hot piece of solder on the fuel lines or down the intake manifold. Give me a few minutes and I will get the package and get everyone on the boards the p/n for the fuel injector clips. Also, once I completed the fuel injectors, the notch on the coolant temp sensor is offset to one side so a fuel injector pigtale will not work. With that said, anyone have a p/n for that style of connector???

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

You can remove the notch with a pair of pliers and the clip will work. You can also just check with the local auto parts and see if they supply the sensor with a new clip, the last one I bought years ago came with it from Napa I believe.

Regarding soldering.
You do not want to solder the leads.
Solder creates excessive resistance in the wiring and this can create issues.

Soldering these kinds of connections went out about 10 years ago. All good shops just use the crimp method on resistance related wiring. :-)

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yeah theres no need to solder, or even crimp. you just back the wire out of the new pins, and put the mazda wires in the new plastic, done.

buldozr

iTrader: (1)

My roomate would love that statement, hes an EE major at UTD(one of the finest EE schools in the nation). I guess I need to unsolder all those connections in that ECU of mine

Basic rules of electricity, it will take the path of least resistance, in this case, the wires are twisted firm then soldered together, the path of least resistance is copper wire touching copper wire, not copper- solder- back to copper wire. Solder in this case is merely a 'weld' so to speak, to keep the twisted wires from coming apart and also helps in corrosion at the joint(in my case I used a low ration rosin core to help corrosion plus the heat shrink to help with moisture getting in the joint). Noob to rotaries, maybe, noob to basic high school physics, I am not. For other people that read this, I would highly recommend soldering and heat shrink. My roomate would agree.

As far as shops not doing it, because they are paid by flag hours, which means they need to do their job quickly(not always the best way of doing things), you will find highend auto repair shops and audiophiles solder wires, not crimp. REALLY highend repair facilities just replace(Mercedes Benz especially but if the harness is not attainable anymore... they solder)

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Well,

I totally disagree and advise anyone reading this not to solder wiring that is associated with any components that have resistance values.

FYI: I was a service Manager for a "High end" repair shop that specialized in Mercedes Benz, Porsche, etc.. The soldering thing went out a decade ago because of found associated issues with soldering.

buldozr

iTrader: (1)

you base your 'anti soldering' rebuttle by a shop fad instead of factual negatives on the technique.... Wow. Do you know that every electrical component on the car has a 'resistance value'? Like mentioned before, shops dont solder due to time consuming and some techs dont know how to solder, thats the reason they dont solder. Not because of excess resistance, if anything, a straight through crimp connector has more resistance vs. soldering copper to copper. It is a fact that can be proven in less than 10 minutes. The benefits of soldering easily out weight the time saved using a crimp connector in this application. Highly recommended.

Anex 570

This thread has been bothering me all week.. I work in the Electronics Maintenance Shop for a signal unit. Put it this way, do you know how much resistance a small drop of solder even has? VERY VERY little. When you properly join 2 wires together, you first secure them together, making a connection before soldering them. Then you'll heat them up and add a small drop of solder that joins them together. Thats all theres to it, you'll want some resin and heat shrink, but theres nothing more to it. If you use yet another connector before a connector.... thats getting silly, theres a connector 4 inches before you attach the injector plug?

I recommend soldering and heat shrinking.

bliffle

I'm a EE and I've been soldering things together since I was 11, including all kinds of electronics things like radio receivers and transmitters and computers and audio amplifiers, etc. there's a good reason that we solder wires together: done properly the solder bond holds two wires together in intimate mechanical contact and it supplements the wire-to-wire electrical flow with more flow thru the solder surround.

If you want to make the highest quality possible battery cables you use arc welding cable with thousands of strands of copper wire (thus taking advantage of the Skin Effect) and you join the ends to high quality battery posts with soldered joints to make sure that all (or most of) the strands are in close electrical contact with the terminals. Much better than crimping. Measurably lower resistance.

In fact, crimping is simply too unreliable to be used in computer or radio circuits except to the minimum extent possible, usually where two subassemblies must be joined, such as a ribbon cable plugging into a circuit board, and then a lot of highclass design goes into the connectors to try to ensure reliable electrical contact. Even so, a slight amount of corrosion or deposition can cause a contact to be intermittent.

My T40 laptop has a distorted LCD display so I must open it up and wiggle connectors and spray with contact cleaner. It's never a bad solder joint.

It is possible to make a bad solder connection, usually called a "cold solder joint", usually by improper cleaning and 'fluxing' (acid etching) of the surface and/or solder at the wrong temperature, but with todays automated machines that's almost eliminated. But a poor electrician can make a bad solder joint, and that may be why mechanics who are untrained and solder infrequently prefer to avoid it.

Vibration may deteriorate a solder connection, usually when one end is fixed and the other is loose or flexible, but usually two wires twisted together and soldered are not subject to that.

mjm4jc

I don't think anyone here is arguing that soldering does in fact make a stronger connection when done properly. And everything that you mentioned above has nothing to do with what the doc said. Battery cables, amplifiers, etc., do not have something that is "reading" and "interpreting" resistance values. These components have set resistance values to enable them to work on not work. However, just on the surface, I can't see how a solder joint would affect resistance value to the point of causing a component to not function properly.

This will be another one of those "unsettled" debates. I do appreciate your input and experience that you have shared. Most of us will have to weigh out the pros and cons and decide for ourselves.

buldozr

iTrader: (1)

Its all good, If you cant solder or dont have access to 110v or a torch, then by all means, you have to use a crimp. If you crimp, be sure to wrap it either in heat shrink or electrical tape to keep moisture out. Regarding the coolant sensor connector, if your ever replacing it, you will notice the fuel injector connector is identical except for the notch in it(its offcenter). What I did was I couldnt source an oem style connector so I used another fuel injector connector and used a small handsaw or you can use a serated knife and knock out the notch. You will want to keep as much material as you can and try to go slow so not to crack the plastic, once completed, its just as rigid as original(actually better considering mine was in peices) and looks like a great repair! One more thing you wont have to ever worry about. Later guys.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The problem with soldering, and I'm not against it, is many use the wrong type of solder and the connection can corrode. Using solder formulated for sweating copper pipe is a good example of what not to use.

If you've stripped down as many 7s as I have, you'll notice that most of the connections are simply crimped and cold solder joints are a nagging problem in the 2nd gens.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Basically, I see both sides on this one. A proper solder joint (clean copper, twisted, correct temperature, correct solder, etc.) is probably the best connection. However, shops are generally doing this stuff on the car. Limited access, poor lighting, etc. makes for a less than ideal environment for soldering work. Not nearly as good as working on a bench.

So, solder is probably best in an ideal situation, but crimp might be better in real world applications. As far as resistance of the joint having an impact, it depends on the sensor. In most cases, the sensor resistance is well above the resistance of any joint that you will make (even a fairly poor connection), so the joint resistance has no real impact. However, some thermosensors (and maybe other sensors) will have a low enough reistance (at operating temperature) where you would have to be extra cautious on the resistance of the joint.

I will solder if I have good access to the wire that needs to be soldered or if it is something that can be easily removed to solder on the bench. Otherwise, crimp connections are the way to go.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

room is really tight on the gsl-se's, right there. my way works better, plus you get to skip the whole solder vs crimp debate.

personally, i dont have a good crimper, but i have a nice iron, so soldering works better for me