Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

Ok, I have searched for what I think it would be under and found no one that did this or has done it.

Ok, on a S5 oil metering pump it is electric, and ran off the ecu. So on a gsl-se or S4 cover it is manual and easy. So how would I use a S5 motor in a 1979 SA? Keep in mind the parts car has the harness and ecu so I will end up using those so I don't have to use a standalone.

85rotarypower

I don't know for sure, but I think all OMP mounting flanges were the same. You should be able to just use your 12A OMP is this is true.

Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

Well the 12a OMP is manual, A lever controlled MP buy the throttle. On the S4 car it was the same, but on the S5 cars mazda switched to an electric OMP ran from the computer so it has to be plugged in the harness.

I guess I could take it off and run mix (pain in the butt) or figure out the value needed and use a resistor to fool the computer into thinking it is plugged in, hide the S5 OMP somewhere in the engine compartment and run with the S3 manual OMP on the cover. Well, that would not be a good fix. I am trying to figure out if the S3 front cover would allow the S5 OMP to bolt on it so I can use the correct OMP and the S3 front cover to put the motor, tranny, ecu, AFM, and sensors in a 79 SA so I could have a S5 FI motor in my 79.

Anyone have a S5 motor in a 1st gen and stayed FI without going stand alone?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The S5 ecu requires a signal from the mop. If it doesn't recieve one, or gets a bad one the ecu goes into limp mode. A failed or bad mop can damage the ecu, requireing both to be replaced, and the S5 mop is 1300-1400 bucks new, iirc.

You can hang the mop off to the side, plugged in so that the proper signal is transmitted between the 2, then hook up the mop that comes with the front cover you use, usually the GSL-SE cover. That will change the mop from load based to throttle based. You will need to make some sort of lever and rod coming off of the S5 tb, or pre-mix.

With the cost involved in replacing the S5 mop or ecu, I would be looking at going Mega-Squirt, which can be 1/3 the price of any name brand standalone.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

I don't know if an S4, 12a or -SE OMP would fit on, but that seems the best option if you can rig something to pull the lever.

I'm sure I've seen this, but it would be in the 2nd Gen or Canadian section that I saw it. S5 to S4 swaps have this trouble

As for the computer, follow trochoid's advice, I don't know (nor wish to know) anything about computers. My car doesn't intend to use one in the near future.



Jon

steve84GS TII

Im running a S5 engine with an SE front cover.I had the SE cover built up and then machined and drilled to accept the S5 OMP in the factory configuration.Its the simplest and safest way to do it since it mimicks the factory setup.Only cost about 120 bucks.
You will have a hard time fooling the S5 ECU into thinking the OMP is there.Not only does it have to detect the stepper motor's presence,but also the OMP position indicator needs to be sending the right signal to the ECU all the time in order to prevent limp-mode from engaging.Mazda made damn sure their new electronic oil metering system didnt cause major engine failures by installing limp-mode activating codes on 3 different OMP functions.
The alternative,as mentioned by trocoid,is to plug in the S5 OMP and lay it off to the side.Then run a mechanical OMP or premix.Personally, I think this is half assed,but it does work.If your going to do a full S5 swap,do it right and have a spare FB cover modded to accept the S5 OMP,then there are no worries and you retain factory reliabilty.Mines been utterly reliable for years.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

I agree, having the front cover modified to accept the S5 mop should be the most reliable. I am not sure what all is involved in this and didn't know of anyone who had done this successfully.

Steve, if you could post pics of this, especially during the modding phase of the cover, it would benefit quite a few who are going the S5 swap route.

steve84GS TII

I did it years ago,and didnt get any pics.And of course,its damn hard to get a camera down to that area of the engine.
Its really not a hard proceedure for a competant machine shop.Youll just need 3 things to make it simpler for them to get the job done.
1. Your donor 1st gen cover.I used an SE cover.
2. The S5 OMP.Used to get all the refference points and for final fitting.
3. A S5 front cover.Makes it easier to describe what your final goal is to look like.

The whole thing just consists of building up some aluminum along the front edge of the existing OMP pad.Then the pad and built up area is machined flat,back to factory specs.Then drill and tap the 3 holes to mount the S5 OMP.....thats it.When it was done,it looked like it came from the factory that way,very simple.

The only catch is that theres no longer room for the turbo oil drain in the traditional spot under the OMP.I ran mine forward to the very front corner of the cover.Theres a nice little spot that clear and just thick enough to drill and tap for a 1/2" ID fitting.And you have to run a S5 waterpump/housing to clear the larger OMP.
Heres the best pics I have of it.....

Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

Now that is exactly what I needed to know. That is how I want to set mine up. I have a gsl-se front cover / oil pan and could take all that to a machine shop.
I wonder if I should go ahead and tap in a oil line incase I need it down the road.

steve84GS TII,
Ok I know you said you tapped an oil line in, did the shop do that as well or did you. And could you try to get a better pic of that? Were about to do a TII swap into a REPU so that would be helpful.
Also did you put this S5 turbo motor in a 84gs? If so what brakes did you upgrade to? What tranny did you run? What rear end?
Please post more info on your setup.

The 79sa I am putting this in, well I could either use a gsl rear end (I have one laying around) or I could use a full gsl-se suspension (I have that too). I want to use the gsl-se but depending on the rims I find might decide that for me.

Chad

steve84GS TII

All my specs and some older pics......
http://www.mazspeed.com/carofthemonth.htm
All the specs are still current and Ive put nearly 30K miles on the setup with zero breakdowns,daily driven.

I cant really get a better pic,thats as close as I can get with my camera and theres not a lot of room with everything thats down there......

I did the oil drain myself.I have a full shop filled with drill and taps at my disposal.I left the heli-arc aluminum welding and machining to a pro,especially since a lot of older Japanese aluminum tends to be cheap potmetal,hard to work.
Seriously,the drain is easy. Just a drill,tap and an off the shelf fitting. All of which can be purchased at a Home Depot.If your not going turbo,you could always just drill the hole and plug it.That way if you go turbo later,just pull the plug and install a fitting.Then you wont have to pull the cover again to keep shavings out of your engine when you drill/tap the hole.

Fire85GSLSE

iTrader: (29)

ok, I know that car. I want to paint mine the same way but silver with black on top. That's too funny, because I have pics of your car and show it off often.
Cool man, and sweet 1st gen!

neil Gueldner

iTrader: (1)

I'm trying to duplicate what Steve84GS TII did with the front cover.

I just pulled the S5 cover, and it looks like the oil passages are totally different between 12A and S5 13BT. See pic, 12A cover on left.

I was wondering if the GSLSE front cover has oil passages the same (or at least closer to) the S5 front cover?

Can anybody post a pic of a GSLSE OMP mount?

Thanks.

steve84GS TII

Its been a while but I think the SE has the same oil passage/drive tang positions as the S4 and S5,or my modification wouldnt have worked.....your right about the 12A cover though,its very different.The later OMP's use an oval, captured O-ring to seal the pump,you can see the outline of the O-ring on the S5 cover.The 12A and older engines use a regular gasket.