13b4me

You have to cross-reference, and have the ability to anticipate other people's idiotic thread titles...

jarath

I dunno, I'm a noob and I've got nothing but help and kindness on this forum... but then again I know how to search Being a software developer you get pretty good at searching google newsgroups and development forums for information so maybe I have an unfair advantage.

The sheer amount of information I've found on this forum is staggering... I think Trochoid, Doc, Mgb, etc should be commended for their experience and willingness to help everyday... it's one of the main contributers for me coming back to this forum when I should be working.

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who do an amazing job of helping those of us who really need it! You can't please everyone but I'm sure satisfied with all the help I've received for free

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

I too as Trochoid put it am not by any means a "God". I have been around not only Rotaries but the Automotive scene for over 30 years. I have alot of on hands experience with Automobiles. Most of the time I enjoy figuring out other forum members diagnostic needs than I do working on my own.

What I have learned is that for most to be able to learn and grow they have to learn thru the thought process. IMHO, I believe that alot of people believe that it is easier to give someone the answer instead of explaining to them how to find their answers. If you just hand out the answer than as you can see with alot of new members they just ask another. I don't believe that is as beneficial to someone as if they had to work for it. Meaninng that if someone that is not familar with anything and they have to do some research, then the next time they need to educate themselves on a subject or are working on their car. They will have developed deductive and reasoning skills. This will not only help them become better at everything they do but will also give them the ability to help others.

I often more than not will Pm new members and instruct them on how to find the info that they need. And yes I have been guilty of the posts, "It's been covered a million times." I am not by anymeans perfect. I guess that the most frustrating thing of an internet is that you are not next to the person to guide them in the direction that they need to be going.

If everyone wants to help educate our new and existing members. I recommend that you Pm them and give them some personal instruction on the tools that we have available on the forum. Explain to them how to use the search function by typeing out an example. Explain to them all the work that went into the FAQ's and how much that info will educate them about their new experience.

I know you guys see me post things like. That question is best left for the region specific section of the forum. Or this material is best left for the lounge.
Also I and others will instruct those who have put WTB/WTS ads where those belong on the forum. The reason I do it is that the computer system is just a gatherer of info recognizing "Words". What happens when a non-diagnostic, non-modded question gets entered into this section is that all those words that were used now become part of the "Search" function.

For example. If someone comes in and puts a WTS thread in this section and uses the keywords A/C, P/S, Cruise Control,etc.. When someone goes to do a search for one of the above related topics then this non-related thread becomes one of the useless ones they have to sift thru to obtain their answer. Now if you multiple this by the amount of non-related threads that get put in this section, well I think you get the idea. Also I believe that if we educate new and existing members alike that if after searching you do not find your answer. If they could maybe bring back a similar related thread from the past and post their question in there than not only will we have less new redundnat threads but we may have one that we can now be diversified with and have a ton of related knowledge that we can add to.

I feel that if a member wants to post thier car for sale in this section that it is ok if they do the following. Have a hsort title in their thread such as Selling my 85 Gs. Then instead of putting all the details. Put the link to the correct section and instruct members not to respond in the thread but to the original one.

Just my thoughts on the subject. And If I have offended anyone it was and never has been my intention to do so and I will gladly openly apologize.

John64

We all where flamed when we first came on here. Just take a look at some of the questions you asked when you first came on! They will mostly sound like a noob who knew nothing. Take it easy on the young ones and just point them in the right direction. Most of them will take 1 or 2 times of "use the search button" then they will get it. Others will always ask the same questions for as long as they are on here. They in my opinion deserve to be treated bad. Just my 2 cents!

13b4me

Words of wisdom. (to the docta)

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

this is totally true.
i mean you cant expect everyone to know how to use a computer.
i for one CAN NOT, i graduated in 2000 and never once took a computer class.

64mgb

iTrader: (1)

Man, I couldn't disagree with this more. I think we have some really good mods. They've always been very helpful to me, and always open minded. Maybe it's a perception thing. It always amazes me when two people can see the same thing and interpret it completely differently.

Rich

64mgb

iTrader: (1)

I completely agree...the search is weak, but I don't think it's entirely a "computer literacy" thing (see my previous post on the search issue).

Rich

fcdrifter13

I did not mena to say in this section.

13b4me

FC section ^ lol

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

There have been a lot of good points made in this thread.

When I first joined the forum we had no FAQ, the Archive was a joke, and the moderator of the first gen section had under a hundred posts and hadn't posted in a year. Needless to say, it was a bit of a mess, but we managed somehow.

Thanks to Inittab and Rx7Carl, things started getting cleaned up around here, and we introduced support structures in an attempt to help the new people to the forum any way we could. Since then, Inittab (Bob) has moved on, but myself and DF have stepped in to help out.

But the fact of the matter is that no matter how much info you place within easy reach, some people will expect you to spoon feed them the information, and then balk at you when the information you're giving isn't what they expected. That's life.


When I come accross a thread which has been asked before, I usually try to, at the very least, point the person in the right direction. If I think he should search, I try it myself first and give him the terms to search for. Yeah, sometimes I'm not as nice as I could be about it, but I'd be willing to bet that an easy 5% of my entire post count is re-answering the question about what spark plugs are good.

I know that the search turns up too many results oftentimes, and those results have been diluted by a hundred threads asking the same question but not getting an answer. It's something I've brought up before. Cleaning out the crap would be a monumental task of epic proportions, which is why we put so much effort into the archive and the FAQ. If you limit your search to just the archive, you know all threads coming back are going to have some sort of relevant info.

And if the info's not in the FAQ, and not in the Archive, then there's the new "what can't you find" sticky, and people can always make another thread. The problem is that when someone doesn't ask specific enough questions, or mention what they've already found on the topic, it looks like they haven't even bothered at all. If they're not going to put in the effort to read the Frequently Asked Questions sticky, then why should I spend time re-typing my old posts for their benefit?


I'm always open to suggestions on how to make this forum a better place for newbs. Heck, in many ways I'm still a newb, which is why I still carry the "Rotoholic Moderookie" title under my name. I don't know jack about FI, just learned the details of a good wet NOS system last week, haven't rebuilt my own rear end or tranny yet, and a host of other things.

But for all of this, and all the talk about what more we can do to help the newbies, I can't remember the last time someone PM'd me and said "Hey Jon, I found this cool thread that's not in the FAQ. I think some newbies might like the info"

So c'mon guys, next time a newbie asks a question, take a few mins to link him to the thread, give him search terms, or type out a few lines that will help him out. And if you find something Mr. Newbie needs that isn't already in the FAQ or Archive, tell me.

Jon

DavidMyers53

I still consider myself an RX7 noob even though I've had my car for 10 months now. I post on several different forums (other than car forums) and each one is different. When I first came to this one, I didn't really know how to navigate the forum, I didn't know enough RX7 terminology to search effectively or understand a lot of the discussions, and I had several burning questions. Therefore, I posted questions rather than try to search. I'm sure a lot of other new-to-the-forum people are the same way.

Maybe a better FAQ page would help. Many of them are threads that are hard to follow, and the pictures are missing.

Maybe we need to be kinder to noobs. I also agree that many noobs need to work a little harder.

The other thing that bothers me about this forum (and yes, I do it too!) is when somebody asks a legitimate question, people who don't have a clue will post answers. This is really frustrating to someone who doesn't know enough to rule out the junk answers.

Everything considered, though, this is an extremely helpful bunch of people on this forum. I don't know how I could have gotten my car running (and keep it running) without all the good input I've gotten.

My $.02 worth.

Thanks, guys!
- David

Man_in_black49464

iTrader: (1)

Well Put DOC

ray green

iTrader: (14)

"I do not have a rotating triangular head like some of you may think"

trochoid, are you sure? I'm crushed. Next you'll probably tell us you don't ride around on rotary sneakers like everybody says.

And that Doc doesn't really have an MD in rotary mechanics, he's just a lawyer.

Come on guys, I don't think I'm ready for all this!

And seriously, thanks to all the members for making this a forum full of information and fun, worth coming back to even after you get pissed off.

Ray

aa35199

iTrader: (1)

It's part of being in the forum, most of us have had our ignorant moments and caught a good flaming over it, especially me! https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ullshit+rotary


I still have burn scars

Blake

The signal to noise ratio (good info to worthless info ratio) is pretty bad on this -- or any -- forum just by the nature of the medium. The search function is really not as valuable a tool as some think. Unless you know exactly what you are looking for and what key words were used, it's hard to even find a worthwhile thread. Even if you do know EXACTLY what you are looking for, you still have to wade through pages and pages of crap.

People new to the forum are ignorant, not dumb. They are capable of learning and are just looking for the material to do so. Some are certainly far too lazy to even try searching, but no more lazy than many of the people who refuse to help them. The best approach I saw in action was a guy on an old email list that would perform the earch himself and provide all the appropriate links. He wasn't spoonfeeding them so much as showing them how it's done. Spoonfeeding would be simply answering the question for the millionth time, which I don't think is all that helpful. As an experienced member, you might be suprised how worthless some of the threads you remember as being helpful really were, and perhaps it should be summed up again for easier digestion. A benefit to providing links and not answers is that future searches will find a lot of good links insead of all the "search noob" replies. Anyway, if someone posts a question that is often asked, give them a link and show them the search terms or method you used to find it. Give them a fish and you feed the for a day. Teach them to fish and you feed them for a lifetime.

Perhaps the real solution is to have a waiting period before new members are allowed to post. It should use a method that counts their page views or searches, so it knows when they have made an efforts to digest existing knowledge before asking questions that come up daily. Of course, as an old fart, I want a filter to block people who can't write a coherent post or refuse to capitalize or punctuate. Anyone using "U" instead of "you" should be banned.

Also, keep in mind that people new to the forum are not necessarily new to cars or rotaries or whatever. And people with high post counts are often as full of **** as a guy with 10 posts. Sometimes it depends on the subject. Mr. High Post Count may know how to tune a Holley or wire in a SAFC, but other stuff is outside his experience and his ego won't admit it. Parroting is the biggest source of misinformation I see on here. That is, repeating "conventional wisdom" that you have heard before as if you knew it for a fact. It's almost as big a problem as engineers (usually engineering STUDENTS, but also professionals) placing theory on a higher pedistal than practical experience. That is, of course, completely backwards. When the theory and reality contradict, it is the theory that is wrong. I know a great many people with valuable knowledge or other contributions to make who had very bad experiences with the forum and will never return. There are many times when I almost left out of frustration. Right now, I don't participate all that much because there is always a bigger "expert" who doesn't respect my experience. I am here to sell product, defend the company reputation and -- on rare occation -- contribute information where I think it may help.

New members, however, should keep in mind that the personalities on the forum are not necessarily representative of the actual person behind them. I have met a lot of forum members and find it hard to rationalize between them and their forum persona. I can't stand Icemark on the forum, but he seemed a nice guy in person. Some people I like on the forum are dumb as rocks in person and wouldn't know anything if they hadn't read it on the forum. Many members don't have cars or at least not RUNNING cars for years on end, yet act like experts at everything under the sun. This is not unique here, but all over the internet. Whenever I see someone with a REALLY high post count, I start wondering what they do for a living or if they have any real friends. Some are just really hard core but others are here because these are the only friends they have. It's kind of sad, really.

Sorry for the rambling post.

Kim

I eat no0Bies for breakfast.

Seriously, Some of the newbies are cool and obedient, like they should be.

Others are just plain retarded, posting several questions allready covered in the FAQs or the Archive, even similar threads half down the friggin page - I dont respond to those.

I was a stupid newbie too once, but I knew how to use the search feature and that's why I know it all today
The problem with searching is all the ******* misguiding threadtitles and the forums tendency to be unresponsive at the most annoying moments.

I wont take the credit of being a forum God.

Kim - The King

Markusr2001

I've asked some pretty dumb questions on this forum.
It comes with the territory.
Knowledge is power.
Some people share their knowledge and experience freely to help others.
I've encountered a few people who seem to be easily irritated by questions and enjoy scolding people who don't know as much as they do.

Pretty immature really, but whatever.
For the most part, I would have to say this forum is excellent and has helped me tremendously with my 1979 RX-7.

My advice would be proceed with caution, grow thick skin and assert yourself like you have a pair.

Naegleria_Fowleri

newbs are the whole reason I stopped coming to the real sections of this forum. I occasionally come back in just to see if any information, or fun topics have been posted. Newbs, however, never change. They come in and ask "Can I turbo my car?" "How much horsepower does this add?" etc. etc. etc.

Its perfectly fine to be a new member. Having newbs suck. All it takes is a quick search, and you got your answers - more than likely, fifty times over followed by fifty threads where someone asked and other members said "search".

Anyway, once my FB is back up and running I'll be back a lot more often. Along with the snow gone enough to drive it.

Naegleria_Fowleri

Jon's ibtl on that post cracks me up. hahaha

Kim

Ahh one of my weak spot, unsupported bullshitting and or lack of research/experience

DublyDurty

People have good days, and people have bad days. Sometimes frustration is evident, sometimes sarcasm is not. The tone of a response is often misinterpreted. I choose to overlook emotion and instead appreciate the truly valuable information gained here.

I've only posted on this forum for 1 year (though I read everything and searched every issue meaningful to me for months before my first post).

In a lighthearted manner I wrote a few "Wanksta rap" (Wankel Gangster ) verses to try to convey the importance of doing a little research on your own. But I fully understand that when you get your first car you want to fix the problems NOW so you can show your friends your "new" car and so asking for immediate help is only a natural result of impatience. Remember being 17?

Wanksta (Wankel gangster rap #4)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you just bought your first 7, and you're looking for advice
Then read the F A Q! 'cause it's been covered more than twice
And after you have done that and you still are quite perplexed
Then "search" until you still can't find what's wrong with your RX

THE NEXT ADVICE I'LL GIVE YOU IS DON'T TYPE ALL UPPERCASE
Or Every Other Word Like This (the ground rules are in place)
Be courteous and open-minded, and acknowledge tips
Be slightly thick-skinned, don't get mad, sarcasm often slips

The 1st gen folks are wise and eager to guide with great skill
They've "been there, done that" or at least we know they someday will
To keep it stock or modify, I'd say that's up to you
But some folks (usually late at night) will say "That looks like poo"

The strength of this endeaver is the knowledge shared for free
And someday you will realise, the "best" mechanic's "me"
By "me" of course now I mean you, experience is learned
And with some time and helpful posts your "cred" will soon be earned

Welcome noob.

**************************************
Wanksta Rap #1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo, yo I'm seventeen and I'm hella bad!
I bought my own RX (but it was paid for by my dad)
I got dem baggy pants and my hat's on in reverse
But you know that I'm cool 'cause I get online and curse
I don't know how to spell, and what is "punctuate"?
But I can say "Aight", and not enunciate
I put up my first post, and "Help!!!" is all it said
I didn't do a search because it kinda hurt my head

My car won't start, and I've been crankin' for an hour
Where do I get a body kit, and double up the power?
I want to beat the ricers that harassed me in the past
So tell me what mods to do to make it really fast!!
My rotary's da bomb and it's old school all the way
But I want to pimp it out although I got no cash to pay
I want the Sterling carb and the Racing Beat exhaust
The Holley FPR and the Carter pump...the cost?

I want flush-mounted headlights, and subwoofers in the hatch
And I want to pull the "rat's nest" (but emissions is the catch)
A carbon fiber hood is the next thing on my list
Then some smokin' hot new wheels (the old one's won't be missed)
Can I get some seats on eBay? Or else tell me what will fit
And scrounge a junkyard racing clutch or rebuild with a kit?
I need some struts and shocks and a glass sunroof is bad
If I only had the money. I guess I'll ask my dad.

We know you're not a Wanksta son and you've got a fake gold tooth
No, I'm not dissin' you young man...I just forgot my youth.

****************************************
Wanksta Rap #2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Igniter box, and carb troubles, and things you'll never need
Broke starter bolt and how to fix?...yo, can't you hear me plead?
My oil pressure's low, and the add coolant light is on
And drag suspension...who to ask? Well maybe I'll ask 'jon'
Headlights pull down my idle, I think WTF, you know?
Completely stock to cleaner stock, my WOT cut out, oh no!
And Bridgeport (that's Connecticut???) What would you pay for this?
How many FB's in your town? My new turbo (with pics!)

I'm eighteen now and wiser, and my 7 is complete
It's time to leave the backyard for a test out on the street
I push down on the button and the door poppers engage
She seems to welcome me and say "It's time to quell the rage."
I close the door beside me and say zoom zoom one more time
I've dreamed of this day often (That new wing is lookin' fine!)
The shaved door handles prolly cut down on resistance too
And racing stickers on the glass should boost me to Mach 2

I push the clutch in, turn the key, and fire up the beast
She spins to life, I wet my pants, (not minding in the least)
My mom looked scared and kinda cried. I backed out of the drive
She yelled "May God be with you son and come back home alive!"
I dropped her into 1st and took off like I knew she would
Then 2nd, 3rd, and Holy Crap! she flew just like she should!
When I hit 4th she chirped again, my hands were sweatin' bad
But 5th gear came and went and still I pushed for all she had

I musta hit 150 'cause my speedo broke and spun!
The front end lifted off the ground, I think my day is done!
But no! The rear wheels, they lift too! I'm flyin' in the sky!
The cops are down below me askin' "How'd he get so high?"
Now one whole year of forums, and the troubleshooting tips
Have brought me to this point, eternal smile on lips
Brrrriiiinnnng! What's that? It's my alarm that's way across the room
'Twas just a dream...for now at least...but someday...someday soon.

Keep the dream alive. But be careful out there.
*********************************

So, like I said, I was just trying to find a lighthearted way to say "SEARCH" but hopefully without all the drama. Help is out there if you'll try to help yourself first and not appear that your time is too valuable to waste searching, but you don't mind wasting the time of others.

Remember that this is a free service that crosses all demographics of gender, race, religion, intelligence, maturity, age, experience, computer skills, and language. Take what you can and learn...give what you can and teach.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I appreciate all the help.

Peace,

DD

Rotospeed

iTrader: (8)

nice...

John64

Not to threadjack or anything, but how hard is it for me to put a turbo in my 13B? Oh, how can I tell if I have a 13B?

DublyDurty

HA HA!

Thanks John64. I forgot to mention "threadjack".

1. Threadjack (from the Urban dictionary)

To take over the content of a message thread by changing the subject of discourse to a topic outside the purview of the original subject and/or forum, while maintaining the subject line. A form of amusement for trolls. Threadjacking is distinguished from flaming, as flames are a quasi-personal attack on a poster or on a poster's style of discourse, where threadjacking is deliberatly steering the discussion offtopic.

And if you can't find "how hard is it for me to put a turbo in my 13B" or "how can I tell if I have a 13B" in the FAQ, just PM me and I'll try to help

DD