Pancake

Kind of a strange topic here, but I'm wondering just how the FB/SA compares in corning 'feel' to the FC. I've been driving an FC for awhile now, but it's just not right. The turn-in characterstics aren't right and it just feels.... off. I'm looking for something much more 'go-kart'esc. So, how does the FB feel? How much does the weight difference pay off? To give some reference, I really really liked the feel of my old E30 for cornering (just not the cost of keeping it running). I want something that's fast on curvy roads up to about 80-90, not something that can run high speed on the freeway.

Also, why is the GSL-SE 300 lbs heavier than the normal FBs? The thing weighs as much as an FC!

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The SEs were heavily optioned, with ps and a glass sunroof being about the ony addition options. Interior is plusher, heavier seats, pw, rear wiper, slightly heavier rear end and then all of the FI 'stuff'. Lightest model is the non-suroof S.

With all of the suspension mods I've done to the widebody, it runs circles around my FC DD that has adjustable AGX shocks/struts and Eibachs. Definitly has the skateboard handling in the WB. Link is in the last line of my sig.
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TeamSMS

The GSL-SE weight's 150lbs lighter than the GXL FC....but i still raced an n/a s5 with exhaust and beat it in my stock GSL-SE.

TeamSMS

I guess i just got lucky...my GSL-SE has a manual steering rack and has the lighter sunroof instead of the glass sunroof.

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion the FB is just a better car in general. If you look at the sum of the FB's parts at first you think this car has to be a piece of ****! Solid rear axle, recirculating ball steering. Smallish disc brakes for no SE models. Oddly enough the car shattered my expectations after driving a stock 12A equipped one back about two years ago. The FC is not that great of a car and it is known to be a car to appeal to a wider range of people. Like a camaro with a better engine. I have driven just about every model of FC and am not impressed at all. A FD is a great car. It doesn't need much fixing in my opinion. The FB is cheap to own, you can put any engine from any RX-7 in it. It is one of those cars that you can take as far as you want and it always gets better. Leave it stock and it's quite capable as well. The 12A sucks in my opinion since it's carbed. Some people like carbs I hate them. They waste fuel, and are not adjustable on the fly like the way a computer can compensate for pressure changes and temperatures. This is the reason my car will never be carbed again. The 12A was fun it just doesn't make enough torque for me. Although the S5 engine will only have 40 more foot lbs. It has a very wide torque curve. And my car only weighs just a bit over 2100lbs last time I weighed it. I took more stuff out since then but I also added a bit of weight with the new motor. I figure I can keep it around 2200LBS like I want it to be.

The FB turns in better than the FC, The rear brakes lock up sooner on stock cars due to the large amount of suspension travel but that was fixed on my car with just springs and struts. You can't fit as big of a wheel and tire combo on the FB as the FC but it doesn't need them since the car is lighter. I am workingon getting a set of fender flares to utilize bigger tires. The FB is just as hard to recover from a big slide as the FC. There is still that point of no return angle on unmodified cars. It can be fixed just like on the FC. The FC has a more common lug pattern. Only the SE FB has a 4X114.3 which is why I have SE brakes on my car. These brakes are plenty on this light of a car so far and I haven't even bought a good set of pads like hawks or anything. I also don't have good enough tires to support nice pads though either. If the pads were any better the tires wouldn't work under hard braking. The brakes are that good! Maybe not everyones but my calipers are all rebuilt and there is steelbraided lines at all 5 places. One bad thing about a FB is your almost guaranteed to have to buy all new weatherstripping at a cost of about $400 for all of it at my last count. But of course it will last like 10-15 years so I guess it's not that bad really. The drag co-efficients of the two cars is almost identical if I remember correctly.


I could go on forever but basically The FB is more of a pure sports car and the FC is a masses pleasing car. Not saying the FC is bad at all. In comparison to other cars it's bad *** just saying in my opinion the FC is below the FB and FD without a large amount of money invested.

Hope this helps.....you'll be fine with either car though if you spend the money in the right places!

Syncro

iTrader: (1)

The FC's DTSS system removes that proper turn in feeling.

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but the FC is a bit sluggish anyways to respond to steering inputs due to it's weight as well. That is in comparison to a FB

Chamele03

You really should not be attempting twisty public roads at 80-90 mph to begin with.

but I personally believe you can make the FC do what you want just as easily as the FB. I have autoX'ed both a S1 and a S5 GTUs and the S5 was far superior in almost every way; turn in, oversteer, understeer, braking. The S5 was just all around more solid and forgiving (and had the rear steer). But I enjoyed the raw connection between myself and the S1.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The S5 GTUs was purpose built as an NA autocrosser/roadracer. The 88 GTU is a close 2nd. I still prefer the 1st gens when it comes to building car that handles like a sport car should. Just looking at the IMSA win records between the 1st and 2nd gens should convince most how much fun the 1st gens are.

mikewoodkozar

Plus i see FC's everywhere, clean FB's are seen about as much as FD's

lupin

iTrader: (3)

get DTSS eliminators like I did
and get a s5 ps rack and depower it.
then get the racing beat suspension kit and get 4 kyb agxs

Then buy some 99 mustang gt rims.(get some summer tires)

The car will handle like a beautiful dream

Pancake

I could go on forever but basically The FB is more of a pure sports car and the FC is a masses pleasing car.

That sums it up well. It really reminds me of an SCCA race-prepped 3rd gen F-body, 3rd gen Supra, or an E36; by the numbers, it's a great car, fast and can corner well. All are also cars that were watered down from previous versions to 'better fit the masses'. However, from an actual driving standpoint it just doesn't feel right. It is one of those cars that is technically fast, but I would pass it pretty easily in a fun to drive go-kart of a car (think Miata) on a curvy road.

lupin, how much did the DTSS elimintors help? I've already got some suspension into it (though the tires are really holding it back), and some 16x7.5 Z32 rims, and if I keep the FC it is definately getting a manual rack.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Take a GSL that doesn't have A/C or power steering

Add a ReSpeed Rack conversion, a Sterling, RB exhaust, and upgraded suspension (RB/KYB or Eibach/Tokico) and you've got a helluva gokart!

FBs are just plain FUN to drive, and by stiffening up the suspension and getting better throttle response and power, they just become the kind of cars that pull you in, grab ahold of your soul and don't let go!

Jon

mikewoodkozar

+1 on the FB bonding with your soul, if only it would curl up next to me when i sit on the couch, lol

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

they are both very similar, most of the differences are small as far as ive experienced.

the RB to r&p steering style isnt really that much of an improvement to me, but the rear grip of the FC while handling is much more forgiving compared to FB.

also the weight differences between the cars make them feel a bit different.

mikewoodkozar

True the FC does have a better rear suspension setup

twistystraw

I don't know anything about FC's but just from a looks stand point they are so blan. I totally agreed with the water down comment as they look as general as a toyota corolla.

If you notice there is an overwelming pro FB response, and to think of it you're in the FB forum. I would believe most of these guys since they all sound like they know what they're talking about. I've never driven a car with a LSD really hard and put it into turns, how is it different than driving a solid axle?

84stock

iTrader: (5)

I have a GSL SE and love it. I had another SE and loved it too. I also had a couple of basis gs models and they felt different, handling was very nimble and enjoyable. I don't care for the FC, if I ever switch models I'd leap up to the FD.

locopr1

Comparing stock to stock, My 86 GXL with auto suspension was better than any stock first gen. I love the first gens much more than the second gens, but the way that thing handles on corners at high speeds, you cant compare. IT was remarkable how that thing moved! It was like a porshe. The first gens with circulating ball steering led to alot of understeer and one of the draw backs on turns. I just prefer the lighter, more mechanical feel of the SA?FB though.

Flight Doc89

SA/FB have that nice go-cart feeling, but it all depends on what you want to do with the car. FC has a better suspension (and motor). Invest some time and money into it, the FC should be able to walk circles around FB. I don't even mean upgrades when i say money; just fix old worn out parts and get some decent tires. replace those worn-out DTSS bushings (and other bushings around car) and dying struts, dump some weight....

FirebirdSlayer666

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately you can't replace the DTSS bushings. You can only buy eliminators, unless you pay the $700 per side + labor at Mazda for new floating hubs. I personally loved driving my FB more than driving my FC. I like the manual steering compared to power steering. I like the creature comforts of the FC with A/C, cruise control, power windows/locks/mirrors/sunroof. But most of that can be found in the FB in a GSL or a GSL-SE, which I would trade my S5 GXL for if I found one I liked in good shape

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

The solid rear axle has an LSD. GSL's and GSL-SE's come stock with them. The difference is that the FC has independant rear suspension, whereas the SA/FB's have a solid axle, which means that it reacts differently to road surface changes than the IRS. While generally imperceptable on the street, if you roll over a bump on one side with a solid rear axle, the wheel that hits it has to move, but because it's connected all the way across, the other sides wheel moves as wheel. In the case of an IRS setup, the one wheel that hits the bump moves, the other stays where it is. IRS allows each side to react to it's own surface without interference from whats happening on the other side. Jack up one side of the solid axle housing and you see the other wheel start to gain positive camber. This is an extreme example, or other than going outside and doing all that, hold your hands apart (about a foot) and keeping them exactly parallel, move one up as if going over a bump on that side, and follow the movement with the appropriate response from your other hand. This is what is going on with a solid rear axle.

The LSD just aids in turning, accel, decel, and all around handling in general. The LSD keeps both wheels moving at the speeds they need to(ie: turning, the inside wheel has to move slower because it has less distance to cover in its arc than the outside wheel), as opposed to an open diff, which actually drives only one wheel. Most factory cars, although stated as being 2WD are actually 1WD because the of their open diffs. The masses don't need/want proper LSD, they want cheap cars to get around. My Sunfire is now stuck in snow due to this. If it was worth it and the car wasn't my beater, I would source an LSD, but I have a better car to throw my money into, and I can get some much needed exercise in the morning when I dig it out.

Oh yeah, having never actually driven an FC, but based on my experience in my FB, I won't entertain any ideas of ever owning an FC. The FB is much more of a drivers car. Like the Miata, a minimalist rear drive, light and nimble machine, with a good engine as a starting point. An idea the OEM's have long since forgotten. The FC as stated was designed to appeal to a much broader market, where a weekend racer would be interested as well as the secretary that thinks it's cute but has no idea what a rotary engine is. As usual the bean counters prevailed, and market share went up for Mazda. Not that it isn't a sports car, but it's hardly a drivers car. Those that know, understand the difference. If you don't get it, think FD RX-7 "evolving" into the RX-8. That is the difference. Actually I think that's the best comparison, even if I do say so myself. Exactly the same thing happened. The FD wasn't selling here so they killed it, and later when it's time was up in Japan they brought in the 8, designed with four damn doors and less power, obviously to appeal to a broader market....to make more money. Chalk up another one for the bean counters. The FC and 8 are SPORTY cars. The FB and FD are SPORTS cars, of their respective times, of course.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

I've owned both, and I'll just say that both live up to its hype when it comes to handling.

kenn_chan

As stated before, the SA/FB was more of a drivers car, and the FC was more of a sporty car.

That being said, the FC's IRS was actually a very poor design that is prone to brake jacking due to its design, you will notice that its design (trailing axles IRS) is one that is often used on general purpose sedans and luxo barges on a regular basis, and is actually designed more for ride comfort than handling ability (handling is a secondary benefit and not the primary purpose) in all reality it is not any better than a solid one piece axle (FB).

the front strut design is technically the same between the two, the only real difference on the front suspension being that the knuckle is seperate on the FC, and it uses lower "A" arms to get rid of the tension rods. The rack and pinion however, especially in the non powered models is a godsend, it does not have the "center dead spot" that the recirculating ball design is plagued with and gives much better feedback than the RB system.

the FB design body wise is also much stiffer and stable overall, and any of the normal suspension mods immediatly make a huge difference, where as the same mods to the FC make minor differences because the body is so spaghetti like.

engine differences are a non issue as you can readily swap any rotary into the SA/FB body with minimal fabriacting skills.

The FC however requires major changes to drop a 13Brew or 20b into (to do it right requires a new front crossmember and motor mounts). The SA/FB on the other hand require minimal mods in comparison, with most of the mods centering around the oiling system and front motor mount which is esily modded due to its design.

Oh and let us not forget the simple fact that the original "7" ((SA/FB) the savanah) is just way sexier than the FC, its kind of like comparing Denise Richards in her heyday (wild things) against one of Rene zwelleger (in brigget jones diary) it has potential, but it seems to be wasted.

kenn

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

the main handeling difference lies in the power steering of the FC

an fb without power steering and 15'' wheels will feel soo nice in the turns and at high speeds. My turbo fb has 17's and the steering is a million times tighter then my N/A fb with the 14's. Conttroling drifts seems easier with the 14 inch wheels.