Exhaust Wrap
11-02-05, 07:45 AM
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Exhaust Wrap
I'm thinking about wrapping my new Racing Beat header with exhaust wrap to keep the engine bay temperatures down. This is important when running a blower, in order to keep the intake charge as low as possible. However, I read some info on a web site in which the writer was absolutely against wrapping headers because it damages them very quickly (I can't find the article now, but will keep looking). Yesterday I also got the same input from a co-worker who had read something similar. He said he had his coated (for a Hemi, not a rotary) by Jet-Hot (http://jet-hot.com/) instead.
Has anyone here had extensive experience with wrapping headers on the rotary? I know Code Blue 2 has wrapped headers, buit don't know how long they've been wrapped.
Thanks,
Rich
Has anyone here had extensive experience with wrapping headers on the rotary? I know Code Blue 2 has wrapped headers, buit don't know how long they've been wrapped.
Thanks,
Rich
11-02-05, 08:00 AM
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I've read the same thing. The theory is that wrapping the headers will shorten the headers life because it will trap heat in the header longer and the wrap tends to allow moisture to be trapped under the wrap against the headers. I wrapped some headers on a different vehicle and didn't notice a big problem bu then I onlky kept it another 2 years or so before getting rid of it.
I can see the wrap causing heat damage to the headers since they can't dissipate the heat radially off the tubes and it gets carried longer on the header. A cheap header might succumb to this over time but a well made RB or rotary header should deal with the heat pretty well. As for moisture under tha wrap I think it would only get there because the wrap material would abosrb it from the air thereby trapping it againts the steel. I can see this as a legit issue for a long term concern.
I have heard that getting a ceramic coating will reduce the radiate heat emitted without the mess and any possible drawbacks that a wrap may have. I've seen folks on here talk about it but have never done this to any header.
I can see the wrap causing heat damage to the headers since they can't dissipate the heat radially off the tubes and it gets carried longer on the header. A cheap header might succumb to this over time but a well made RB or rotary header should deal with the heat pretty well. As for moisture under tha wrap I think it would only get there because the wrap material would abosrb it from the air thereby trapping it againts the steel. I can see this as a legit issue for a long term concern.
I have heard that getting a ceramic coating will reduce the radiate heat emitted without the mess and any possible drawbacks that a wrap may have. I've seen folks on here talk about it but have never done this to any header.
11-02-05, 08:02 AM
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Rather than wrapping the header, modify the stock heat shield and use that. I've been using my old heat shield over the RB header for a couple of years now, and it is effective at combating underhood temperatures, and it's also saved my idler arm. If left unchecked, the heat from a header will cook the bushings right out of that thing. 
11-02-05, 11:19 AM
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I think wrapping a RB header voids the warranty. DO NOT WRAP A ROTARY HEADER. They just get way too hot. RB sells a nice heat shield, or just make your own. Jet hot is awesome, too. But dont wrap it.
11-02-05, 12:54 PM
#6
I had my RB header coated inside and out by Jet-hott,and it was one of the best things I ever did to the car.I even had them re-coat it when I noticed rust starting on the outside of it a year later.Get the Jet-hott 2000,and forget about it.It is a bit pricey,but well worth it.I never even installed the header until I had it coated,and the thing still looks pretty new 6+ years later.Good luck,and don't wrap the header.
11-02-05, 01:05 PM
#7
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Bullshit, all of you. I've had header wrap on an RB header in a racecar since 1997. That's 8 years for those a little slow with Math. The car puts out 130RWHP, so it's no slouch (and that's a bone-stock, from the factory 12A). I know the header wrap was done right, 4 years of racing lawnmower engined cars gives you ample opportunity to get the tecnnique down.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
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11-02-05, 02:57 PM
#8
I have to agree with Chris... the RB headers are soooo thick they will never have a problem unless your running extreeeeeeemly high exhaust temps and even then you shouldnt have header issues. The heat shield is good for radiant heat where the wrap is really good for heat soak and radiant heat. run them both and jet hot is good stuff too. As for the rusting, most people who are having rust problems with wrap are probably wraping thin sidewall tubing like most V-8 headers
11-02-05, 03:33 PM
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i would worry about not the header, but the seals in your motor. the header would get a lot hotter not being able to dissipate heat as well and that would transfer over to the engine.
11-02-05, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by christaylor
Bullshit, all of you. I've had header wrap on an RB header in a racecar since 1997. That's 8 years for those a little slow with Math. The car puts out 130RWHP, so it's no slouch (and that's a bone-stock, from the factory 12A). I know the header wrap was done right, 4 years of racing lawnmower engined cars gives you ample opportunity to get the tecnnique down.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
thaaaaank youuuu!!
i currently also have wrap all over my TURBO manifold. that's EVEN MORE HEAT! works beautifully and definately keeps my underhood temps down. one thing i notice from most posts in here is... "i HEARD".... take it from experience. alot of people told me not to do it as well... but honestly everyone told me not to run more than 6psi on a stock port 12a. people that don't know things will sometimes be the ones most hard pressed to tell you they do.
11-02-05, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by christaylor
Bullshit, all of you. I've had header wrap on an RB header in a racecar since 1997. That's 8 years for those a little slow with Math. The car puts out 130RWHP, so it's no slouch (and that's a bone-stock, from the factory 12A). I know the header wrap was done right, 4 years of racing lawnmower engined cars gives you ample opportunity to get the tecnnique down.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
Somebody looked in my engine bay at a race last year, saw the header wrap, and went batshit crazy. They told me it was illegal, they told me it was unsafe. It is neither. I took it off just to check, there was a little flaking that I think is actually some coating, but other than that the header actually looks better than the one on my car that's about 5 years newer.
Oh yeah, and this car spent almost 100% of it's time outside in the rain until about 2 years ago. Plenty of water getting splashed onto it, trapping it against the pipe, and no damage.
Anybody that thinks you can blow out a RB header that easily is dumber than they look. There is a reason they are heavier than hell: they are THICK.
So in short, wrap or coat 'em, it doesn't matter. I will second putting the stock heat shield on, that plus wrap/coat makes a HUGE difference in intake temps. If you go the wrap route, let me know and I'll tell you how I wrap them for maximum effectiveness. The biggest thing is to soak it in water beforehand and wear some gloves. Soaking in water actually cuts down on the glass, and I've wrapped several small pipes with no gloves, but they were desperate times.
I also attached a picture of the exhaust center section after I painted it with Duplicolor Hi Temp 1200 with Ceramic paint. The muffler shop that welded in the bung for the O2 sensor highly recommended it. If it works as good as it looks I'll be quite happy!
Thanks,
Rich
11-02-05, 08:24 PM
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I would use some 0.063" stainless safety wire to hold on the header wrap, but that's me.
I would use Monel beacuse I can get ahold of some, but I don't think most people can get ahold of that stuff. For me though, it's everyday stuff.
I would use Monel beacuse I can get ahold of some, but I don't think most people can get ahold of that stuff. For me though, it's everyday stuff.
11-02-05, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lovintha7
I would use some 0.063" stainless safety wire to hold on the header wrap, but that's me.
I would use Monel beacuse I can get ahold of some, but I don't think most people can get ahold of that stuff. For me though, it's everyday stuff.
I would use Monel beacuse I can get ahold of some, but I don't think most people can get ahold of that stuff. For me though, it's everyday stuff.
Rich
11-03-05, 12:01 AM
#16
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Keep that box -- the picture shows what you want your wrap to look like.
Since there aren't any of the "well my buddy Cooter who's blown up every rotary he's ever been near says exhaust wrap is Baaad" that I was expecting, I'll post up my "how to wrap your headers" here.
I start wrapping them near the flange, for the reason that when you start it the wrap tends to be "thicker" than towards the end. You'll have to guesstimate how much wrap you need... I was lucky in that I had a rough idea from wrapping similar length pipes in the past, but it's been so long I can't remember a good measurement. If that's the same wrap I bought many many years ago (and the box looks really similar) I'd just toss the whole thing in a jug of water. Let it soak for 10-15 minutes, donn your gloves, and start wrapping. Starting at the top, you want to wrap it over itself so it'll hold, keeping your thumb on the end of the wrap to aid in this. Since you've got the clamps, you might want to toss one on to keep from getting frustrated by it. The key is to keep the wrap tight, especially in the bends in the pipe. I forget the thickness of the wrap I used, but I did about a half-width overlap (if that makes sense) all the way down. As you're doing it, if you get a section that looks good you may want to wire it or clamp it down, because when you get to the bends you'll likely find yourself unwrapping it to keep it tight.
That's about all I can remember, but it's all in the technique. Move slow, keep the spacing even, and keep the stuff wet. I forgot in my previous post, the stuff I used seemed to expand in the water, so when it dried it tightened up a little.
If I remember tomorrow I'll snap some pictures and post.
Since there aren't any of the "well my buddy Cooter who's blown up every rotary he's ever been near says exhaust wrap is Baaad" that I was expecting, I'll post up my "how to wrap your headers" here.
I start wrapping them near the flange, for the reason that when you start it the wrap tends to be "thicker" than towards the end. You'll have to guesstimate how much wrap you need... I was lucky in that I had a rough idea from wrapping similar length pipes in the past, but it's been so long I can't remember a good measurement. If that's the same wrap I bought many many years ago (and the box looks really similar) I'd just toss the whole thing in a jug of water. Let it soak for 10-15 minutes, donn your gloves, and start wrapping. Starting at the top, you want to wrap it over itself so it'll hold, keeping your thumb on the end of the wrap to aid in this. Since you've got the clamps, you might want to toss one on to keep from getting frustrated by it. The key is to keep the wrap tight, especially in the bends in the pipe. I forget the thickness of the wrap I used, but I did about a half-width overlap (if that makes sense) all the way down. As you're doing it, if you get a section that looks good you may want to wire it or clamp it down, because when you get to the bends you'll likely find yourself unwrapping it to keep it tight.
That's about all I can remember, but it's all in the technique. Move slow, keep the spacing even, and keep the stuff wet. I forgot in my previous post, the stuff I used seemed to expand in the water, so when it dried it tightened up a little.
If I remember tomorrow I'll snap some pictures and post.
11-03-05, 07:30 AM
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Thanks christaylor - I appreciate the info. In the FAQ section on the Thermo-Tec web site, they recommend a 1/4" overlap:
Q: Why do you use only a 1/4 inch overlap and nothing more?
A: Using only 1/4 inch overlap draws the heat from the motor but still allows the heat to evenly dissipate through out the system. If you use more than 1/4 inch overlap you may cause fatiguing due to hot spots in your tubes.
What kind of gloves do you use?
Rich
Q: Why do you use only a 1/4 inch overlap and nothing more?
A: Using only 1/4 inch overlap draws the heat from the motor but still allows the heat to evenly dissipate through out the system. If you use more than 1/4 inch overlap you may cause fatiguing due to hot spots in your tubes.
What kind of gloves do you use?
Rich
11-03-05, 07:49 AM
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I have heat wrap on my header with the Camden Supercharged Rx7 and on my 85 gsl se turbo. Problem with the Camden is that the temps under that hood get extreamly HOT!!. Anything that will help cool down will help. As soon as I heat wrapped the header, temps stayed much much cooler. Summers here in Eastern WA get to 100 degrees and the temps still stayed cool with the heat wrap. It Will also help if you put an aluminum heat shield underneath that supercharger.
The header on my turbo is also heat wrapped. It stayed nice and cool until a good chunk of wrap came off my header, then temps were raised.
Ive also heard it wears on the header, but Id rather replace the header rather than a motor. Don't freak out when it smokes like crazy after you put it on.
never trust a woman
The header on my turbo is also heat wrapped. It stayed nice and cool until a good chunk of wrap came off my header, then temps were raised.
Ive also heard it wears on the header, but Id rather replace the header rather than a motor. Don't freak out when it smokes like crazy after you put it on.
never trust a woman
11-03-05, 07:56 AM
#19
Waffles - hmmm good
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This post turned out to be an excellent factiod on wrapping headers. It should go into the 1st gen archive. I know I learned some from it and I had wrapped some headers before ( just not rotary ones). Godd info here.
11-03-05, 01:15 PM
#20
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Rich - I'd say listen to their 1/4" instructions. My guess is they're talking about thinner-wall stuff, but I'm not one to argue with a manufacturer.
For gloves, I just use some latex gloves. This time of year it probably isn't a much different uniform, but I'd wear long sleeves, tuck them into the gloves and use a rubber band to hold the shirt under. That stuff is itchy as hell, and you never know how bad you'll react to it. Make sure to soak your pants/shirt before tossing them into the washer... don't want the glass floating around your washing machine (assuming it's a fiberglass wrap, the stuff I used was and didn't think to ask if yours is).
If anybody is thinking about wrapping pipes and installing an EGT gauge, I'd be curious what the temp differences are before and after. Maybe after I fix the EGT gauge on my racecar I'll wrap those too. Good thing my dad's car and mine look similar... they won't notice that my car wasn't wrapped before and now is.
For gloves, I just use some latex gloves. This time of year it probably isn't a much different uniform, but I'd wear long sleeves, tuck them into the gloves and use a rubber band to hold the shirt under. That stuff is itchy as hell, and you never know how bad you'll react to it. Make sure to soak your pants/shirt before tossing them into the washer... don't want the glass floating around your washing machine (assuming it's a fiberglass wrap, the stuff I used was and didn't think to ask if yours is).
If anybody is thinking about wrapping pipes and installing an EGT gauge, I'd be curious what the temp differences are before and after. Maybe after I fix the EGT gauge on my racecar I'll wrap those too. Good thing my dad's car and mine look similar... they won't notice that my car wasn't wrapped before and now is.
11-03-05, 02:29 PM
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I really like your MGB. My dad is restoring a 77. I'm going to help him build the engine for Megasquirt and a turbo. He wants to go with a dark BRG paint and black/tan two-tone interior and do a chrome bumper conversion.
11-03-05, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BlastinSideways12A
I really like your MGB. My dad is restoring a 77. I'm going to help him build the engine for Megasquirt and a turbo. He wants to go with a dark BRG paint and black/tan two-tone interior and do a chrome bumper conversion.
http://64mgb.home.mchsi.com/
Rich
11-05-05, 07:47 PM
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Hey christaylor - I bought a 50 foot roll of wrap. Do you leave it in one piece and keep wrapping the whole thing around the pipe? Or do you cut it into shorter pieces to make it easier to handle?
Rich
Rich
