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Dusting off the old 83 GSL (no power after carb rebuild)
Over the past week I’ve been working on an old 83 GSL 12a that has been sitting for five years. It has sporadically been ran up until about two years ago when I believe the fuel pump went out and has sat full of gas. While visiting family this week I decided to give it the old college try and get it running again. Upon arriving I did indeed find that the old fuel pump was not working I had ordered a fuel pump and fuel filter and carburetor rebuild kit to tackle the job. After taking apart the oem fuel pump I was able to get it running reassembled it and reinstalled it with the new fuel filter. After trying to start the car I got it running however it would bog down a lot and would not hold an idle. Not to mention the amount of smoke that was coming out of the rear.
So I know what you’re saying the gas has turned to varnish, the carburetor is clogged. So the next thing I did was remove the carb and rebuild it on Thanksgiving day. Now I would say I am good with mechanical things however I’ve never been that much of a car guy. I was able to get it off (even with that pesky fourth nut) and apart then put it back together after I had cleaned it. To be honest I did not have much hope for the car to run after my rebuild job however after installing it back in the car and hooking it all back up I was delighted to see that the car now held an idol was able to be tuned and is running quite well.
Next being in Arizona the car needs to pass emissions test and I knew that was still going to be a hurdle even with the rebuild carb. So I decided to buy a bonez catalytic converter to throw on in the coming weeks. However after taking it to get washed and getting an oil change I decided what the hell why not take it to get the emissions test. After all it’s only $17. However up until this point I hadnt revved the engine beyond 5k rpm and had just driven it around the block. While driving to the test I noticed that there was a lack of power in the higher RPMs (above 3500) so when I arrived to the omissions test it could not follow the ramp and that failed the test because it could not be completed.
Today was the last day of my trip and I needed to go home so I tried to read through the forums and see what it could be and came across a couple of opinions saying that it it is fuel starved. So I thought that the fuel pump might be under performing so I had the spare Universal pump and I threw into the car as well as change the fuel filter again since it had filtered a lot of 2yr old varnish. Not much changed. In my opinion, which is to be taken with a grain of salt, the secondary jets are not engaging. After trying to research this I found that there could be an issue with the linkage or could be an issue with the diaphragm. however I didn’t find how to diagnose either of those problems in the time that I had today. Also I could not find much for this issue of no power in higher rpm after a carb rebuild and the fuel pump and filter has been replaced. It is possible I put a gasket on wrong in the carb or didn’t attach a linkage correctly.. I am looking to go back in a couple weeks call the catalytic converter and hoping to diagnose the problem and fix it.
So to be honest if you could help me with a couple of ideas what to check as well as how to check them once I get back to the car it would be much appreciated. Again the symptoms are in second gear on I have no power and no acceleration after about 3 to 4000 RPM (howeve sometimes it would work but only momentarily (vacuum issue with the diaphragm)) The car is idling great. It has a new fuel pump and a new fuel filter as well as a rebuilt carburetor and the engine was rebuilt about 15 years ago. Thanks in advance.
I should note that when in the driveway and i rev the engine it is very smooth to 5500 rpm and then it kinda plateaus in power. So maybe not just the secondaries when I think about it because it should be able to redline with just the primaries. I did notice the gas peddle would not go all the way to the floor when the carb was installed. Could this cause a problem?
Could be vacuum secondaries not opening. Also check to make sure the "teeter totter" for the secondaries is hooked up. Its a strange little attachment that rides in a small saddle on the throttle cable side of the carb.
I would hold off on installing the new cat. This could be a really simple fix on the carb or intake. How long did you run it? Sometimes just running the car for a few 100 miles will get things like this to resolve.
How did the carb rebuild go? Much gunk in there? Did you soak and clean the iron carb base real good? It has a lot of small holes that can get gunk in them.
Could be vacuum secondaries not opening. Also check to make sure the "teeter totter" for the secondaries is hooked up. Its a strange little attachment that rides in a small saddle on the throttle cable side of the carb.
I would hold off on installing the new cat. This could be a really simple fix on the carb or intake. How long did you run it? Sometimes just running the car for a few 100 miles will get things like this to resolve.
How did the carb rebuild go? Much gunk in there? Did you soak and clean the iron carb base real good? It has a lot of small holes that can get gunk in them.
I was thinking a problem with the vacuum until I thought about how it won’t even rev up in the driveway with just the primaries. That linkage is secure and moves nicely (was a little pain to get it back on though)
The new cat is to pass emissions. Even when the engine and carb was rebuilt professionally in 2002 it didn’t pass. Although I’m sure it could have been tuned better than it was. And I’m not sure I can drive 100 miles with a boggy first three gears. Lol
the rebuild went well. Little overwhelming during the process (did it thanksgiving morning and needed to wrap it up in order to cook) not horribly gunky but a couple jets were clogged. Cleaned everything with simple green and flushed all holes with compressed air. I’m about 95% positive I installed all the gaskets correctly because I needed to flip almost every one of them from when I initially placed them. (Although now I am questioning everything) but it went from not being to idle at all and patchy rev’in to a steady 750 idle and clean revs (although it’s only up to 5500-6k rpms)
Check the vent solenoid. It's an odd culprit, but it causes all sorts of weird things if it dies. Symptoms of it can include: hitching/bucking with rpm increase, flooding on decel, starving on accel, rpm "locking" (where it seems the car won't exceed a certain rpm), etc. The solenoid is located on the driver's side of the carb near the fuel lines and is attached with three Phillips screws. It has a single power connector and should receive 12v all the time once the key is in "run". It's grounded through the carb body, although there are a few different designs across the years. When the key is set to run there should be an audible click from the solenoid. I'm not positive about the tubing runs off the top of my head, but if you'd like, I could look into it.
Other possibilities are the PCV, and something clogged or messed up in the carb, but I think you mentioned that you just rebuilt it so...
Just for kicks, turn on the car and let it idle. Look at the fuel sights on the sides of the carb (front and back) to see where the fuel is sitting in the bowls - you'll probably need a mirror to see the rear one. Should be about halfway up the glass. If that's good (or at least close), have a friend hold the gas pedal at various positions (while running) and see if the fuel remains at about the same place. If it's dropping with rpm, there's probably some restriction somewhere (or it's the vent solenoid). Lots of possibilities for that, so first just check the solenoid and the sights.
Just a disclaimer: Even if you think you should, DON'T mess with the floats, at least not yet. If the levels are off, first assume it's a different issue. Floats are a pain to get just right because measuring only gets you so close. The tangs can also break, which presents a new issue entirely.
Check the vent solenoid. It's an odd culprit, but it causes all sorts of weird things if it dies. Symptoms of it can include: hitching/bucking with rpm increase, flooding on decel, starving on accel, rpm "locking" (where it seems the car won't exceed a certain rpm), etc. The solenoid is located on the driver's side of the carb near the fuel lines and is attached with three Phillips screws. It has a single power connector and should receive 12v all the time once the key is in "run". It's grounded through the carb body, although there are a few different designs across the years. When the key is set to run there should be an audible click from the solenoid. I'm not positive about the tubing runs off the top of my head, but if you'd like, I could look into it.
Other possibilities are the PCV, and something clogged or messed up in the carb, but I think you mentioned that you just rebuilt it so...
Just for kicks, turn on the car and let it idle. Look at the fuel sights on the sides of the carb (front and back) to see where the fuel is sitting in the bowls - you'll probably need a mirror to see the rear one. Should be about halfway up the glass. If that's good (or at least close), have a friend hold the gas pedal at various positions (while running) and see if the fuel remains at about the same place. If it's dropping with rpm, there's probably some restriction somewhere (or it's the vent solenoid). Lots of possibilities for that, so first just check the solenoid and the sights.
Just a disclaimer: Even if you think you should, DON'T mess with the floats, at least not yet. If the levels are off, first assume it's a different issue. Floats are a pain to get just right because measuring only gets you so close. The tangs can also break, which presents a new issue entirely.
Thanks Ben,
I made sure to heed everyone’s warning and not adjust the floats. I am confident with my cleaning of the carb. However. I guess there could have been something in the fuel lines that when started back up reclogged something. I will add the vent solenoid and sights on the list of things to check.
i did just remember when doing the disassembly I broke the Choke return valve (black black body with green top and bottom) which I believe is specific to the California versions as per the Haynes manual. I simply replaced it with a section of tubing. Could this be causing an issue I couldn’t find a straight answer in the forums as to whether to plug each end or just install a section of hose.
Mine did the same. The linkage on the back for the secondaries was not hooked. It's a T type fitting that sits in the saddle that Farrell mentioned. Mine had no power and with foot to the floor would not pass 4000rpm
Thanks for the input. I officially back working on it. I did check the teeter totter and sure enough it was off. After putting it on properly I was able to initially rev it to the red line and taking it out on the highway it seemed to operate smoothly (false sense of accomplishment). However. After about 15-20 miles of driving I'm back to the old symptoms. Intermittently it will want to have the power to accelerate in 2nd, 3rd or 4th gears. but most of the time its a standstill and takes forever to accelerate and won't surpass 60mph. What could cause this to be an intermittent problem of the things mentioned: TPS, vent solenoid, vacuum issue... etc
Well this is the second time my post has expired in the reply box so... the short of it is as follows:
Sounds like something is sticking in the secondary system. Maybe the vacuum pot, or the linkages. Seems weird though, considering the rebuild and all.
Most likely not the TPS - the rats nest (which is what it mainly controls) should not cause a loss of power symptom without other oddities too.
Vent Solenoid only controls whether air from the air pump goes to the ACV or is routed back to the intake. From there the Split Air Solenoid controls whether the ACV sends air to the exhaust or the cat (the ACV is generally only active at idle). The Shutter Valve and it's solenoid would cause obvious issues as you'd be running on only the front rotor - it should only activate on decel.
Could be a vacuum leak relating to the vacuum advance, although I would doubt it.
Could you post a couple pictures of the carb and nearby area?
The teeter totter thing is part of an emergency return spring and primary shaft stabilization system due to its rather long length with all those linkage connections on it. But I think it is primarily to prevent the primary throttle from getting pulled open from engine vacuum while running if the main return spring ever were to break.
The teeter totter thing is part of an emergency return spring and primary shaft stabilization system due to its rather long length with all those linkage connections on it. But I think it is primarily to prevent the primary throttle from getting pulled open from engine vacuum while running if the main return spring ever were to break.
Could you post a couple pictures of the carb and nearby area?
I took it out for another spin this morning and its still intermittent. If I got it to start accelerating properly I could make it through the first few gears quickly keeping the acceleration going. However, if I let up on the gas and then tried again it wouldn't accelerate anymore leading me to believe the secondaries are stuck or not opening for some other reason. I have attached some pictures and would love input into what else I can try.
this is the line that had the choke return valve that broke a nipple so I just replaced it with a section of hose.
Glass beading carb parts is never a good idea. It marres the finish, leads to fast rusting, and you get glass beads in places where they shouldn't be. It's possible there might be a stray bead or two blocking or partially blocking one or more passages inside the carb circuits. I wouldn't mention it here if I hadn't seen it myself on a few carbs that were unfortunately glass beaded.
Maybe a bead or two, or several, have blocked the vacuum circuit for the secondaries. What is the fix? Take off the vac sec diaphragm housing, take it apart, blow compressed air through everything (take the carb off the engine first obviously). Watch for beads flying out of the vacuum source hole in the primary venturi. Left side when looking down at the carb such as in the pic above my post.
Nothing looks suspect. I did notice that your TPS adjustment screw appears to be missing, and I'm assuming that the idle comp hose is just on the air cleaner. It really does sound like something sticky in the secondary circuit. Good thought on the beading Jeff20B, never would have though of that myself.
You could also inspect the diaphragm while you're at it. It's probably fine seeing that it moves part time, but maybe there's some junk inside of the housing. Doesn't hurt to check.
Glass beading carb parts is never a good idea. It marres the finish, leads to fast rusting, and you get glass beads in places where they shouldn't be. It's possible there might be a stray bead or two blocking or partially blocking one or more passages inside the carb circuits. I wouldn't mention it here if I hadn't seen it myself on a few carbs that were unfortunately glass beaded.
Maybe a bead or two, or several, have blocked the vacuum circuit for the secondaries. What is the fix? Take off the vac sec diaphragm housing, take it apart, blow compressed air through everything (take the carb off the engine first obviously). Watch for beads flying out of the vacuum source hole in the primary venturi. Left side when looking down at the carb such as in the pic above my post.
Your Y adapted hose fix looks fine.
Thanks for the replies. I am with you guys and thinking its something in the secondaries. And I guess when the carb was rebuilt 10 years ago it was done with glass beads. It has worked fine since then but its possible that me taking it apart and washing it moved some beads around and lodged them somewhere. Now for a question. I took off the diaphragm cover and there seems to be oil in there with some sediment at the bottom thats very gritty. is there supposed to be oil within the secondary diaphram and any thought as far as what the grit is (very fine like sand)
The diaphragm should be clear of debris. Someone may have tried to oil it in the past to prevent it from drying and cracking, although there really shouldn't be anything in there - no grit for sure. I'd clean that all out and takes Jeff's advice about blowing out the passages. I'd say that's probably your problem right there.
Also, 10 years is a long time for a rebuild that hasn't seen a whole lot of use. I'd first clean up the diaphragm, but maybe consider a full rebuild in the future, just for good measure.
Edit: Just re-read your first post where you mentioned a recent rebuild. Just disregard that last paragraph up there.
11-26-18 | 07:10 PM
