joethecomputerdude

okay..
so double clutching for performance... can someone please explain...

also.. if anyone has seen the fast and the furious... he referres to "granny shifting" what is this... and how do i avoid doing it?

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

peejay

Double clutching... only really necessary for downshifting with your transmission is worn out...

Here's a link: http://www.g-speed.com/pbh/double-clutch.html

By the way... the .GIF is making my computer crashy....

joethecomputerdude

thanks and all for the gif.. but you know.. if i search.. i get alot of second and third gen crap that i don't need.. i figure if i post.. then people will be able to read my questions... and hopefully be kind an direct me to an answer

adssoccer

i posted this same question about a month ago in this very forum, so if you put in "double clutching" you should find it, it was a rather lengthy thread too with some good info and links.

basically, the movie is full of s***, double clutching is only used when downshifting. you put in the clutch, move to neutral (manual of course) take out the clutch, blip the throttle, put the clutch back in, shift to a lower gear. it's used if your syncromesh is bad, or if you want to baby your transmission when downshifting. i've heard it takes a while to master, but it works well when you get it down, personnally, i haven't tried it really yet. the tranny seems to be holding up just fine.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

When you do a search, you can specify which threads to search or all.

Spinner-D(eluxe)

I'm sure this was already said in the past but double clutching is a good thing to learn before learning to heal & toe down shift. Double clutching is the first step to smooth downshifting, and when you’re concerned with exiting a corner in a lower gear than you entered smoothly, heel & toe downshifting is the way to go.

Once you can double clutch down shift you can practice heel & toe by braking with the left side of your foot, or toe, and blipping the throttle with the right side of your foot or heel, whichever feels best. I can't torque my foot sideways and feel comfortable, so I just practice using the sides of my foot, and not really the heel & toe per say.

I'm still not to the point of doing a full heel & toe, so I’ve been easing into it buy doing a two-step heel & toe. I simply brake into the corner, and at the last second I take my foot off the brake and do a really really fast double clutch down shift and accelerate out of the corner fast. It's not as smooth as a normal heel toe, but it starts the process of building muscle memory into your feet. Also doing a downshift and relying on your syncros can cause lunging movement, and in a corner this can cause you to torque a little sideways if your not careful. If you do a double clutch downshift correctly a passenger may not even know you shifted (that is if they weren’t watching).

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Since that last time this was posted I have been double clutch (on downshifts only) and have become qiute good at it. Once you start doing it for awhile it becomes natural, just like shifting in general. It makes shift super smooth. You should try it, you'll like it. I too suck at heel-toe, so I guess that's the next thing to master.

85RX7GS

iTrader: (1)

I do somewhat of a variation of the double-clutching method described in that link and it works well.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

A variation? Like what?

Denny

Forty or more years ago I read Sterling Moss's book. He spoke to double-clutching. Of course, back then there was no syncromesh....Your Grandfather knew about double-clutching, so does any old farmer.
You need to press the clutch in, move the shift lever to neutral, clutch out, clutch in, move the lever to the next higher gear. If you're going down a gear, you rev the engine in neutral then move the lever down to the next gear, making sure that the engine revs in neutral are "Meeting" the higher engine revs in the lower gear you've selected.

Same thing for syncromesh, except you don't actually "double-clutch," you simply rev the engine in the midist of your gear change. Know by the Brits as a "racing change." The whole idea is the smooth application of power up or down without upsetting the car's balance, (making the car jerk, or chirping the tires as the drivetrain catches up with the new higher engine revs) or abusing the drivetrain, and especially the clutch disk itself.

Heel and toe is double-clutching while keeping either your heel or your toe on the brake pedal throughout the downshift. Doen right there's a smooth transition of revs throughout the drivetrain, and you lose no braking force as you're still on the brake pedal....

Practice, practice, practice...
I've been double-clutching, and heel-and toeing for well over 30 years....It's actually quite natural to me now, and I drive all my cars that way from the Saab Sonnet and MG, to my SE and Wife's new Honda....She double-clutchs also....

Denny,
From the 'ol corncrib....
s

82transam

iTrader: (18)

I got synchros and still double de-clutch. If nothing else it sounds sweet.

WackyRotary

I do what I call matching the gear speed for entry of the gear. I will grind second gear if I slam it in a full throttle sprint shift at 8500rpm unless I pause for a moment and shift. If I down shift into 2nd gear, I always rev the engine up till the shifter easily engages the lower gear to avoid getting worn out scromesh gears in a hurry. THis techique really makes them last longer before you screw the gears all up.

MyRxBad

Thank you Denny! (seriously)

Man, I get sick of hearing what people think stuff is for and how to be used and don't have a clue...


Hmm.. Maybe I could get some NOS fitteed into my shoes so I can double clutch Mad Kwik Yo!

ghetto-rx7

I am the only one that heard the guy on F&F say double shift not double clutch?

When i used to race moto-x one thing that we would do on the holeshot it rev the bike extremely high in first gear off the line and then shift into 3rd.
Are you shure thats not what the guy from the movie said?

Denny

Thanx for the slap on the back MyRxBad. We need to remember reality from Hollywood. The movie was very entertaining, but still it was a movie. The best Racing Movie ever made is still LeMans with Steve McQueen. The second best is Winning with James Garner. I remember watching LeMans on the big Screen when it came out in 1970....To say the least I left the theatre shaking and vibrating....I could barely drive home I was so lit up.

Driving a good Sports Car is all about balance. Steering, gas, brake, mirrors, guages, etc. When you're in the "Zone" you can feel it. You're comfortable, alert, flowing with the road, and one with the car. You have no fear of the edge as you're the Master of the road. A big V8, or a luxury vehicle, not to mention a SUV, is not a vehicle that's meant to be comfortable and at its best on the edge. I owned a Camero Z/28, and for a time my Father had 396 Camero. Suffice to say, you weren't driving so much as "throwing and catching." It was exhausting work, and I wasn't ever really comfortable. My Father was Assistant Track Manager at Nelson Ledges Road Course for many years. He had access to driving many race cars and pace cars. Able to own and did own many Sports Cars it is interesting to note that his final and favorite vehicles were a '76 Mazda Cosmo, modified for street or track, and a '74 Saab Sonnet which was a track car only. For him these two vehicles were the ones that most easily put him into the "Zone," and kept him "lit up."

Sorry to take so long, but I feel that the goal of being "one with the Road" is the only driving target worth gunning for....

A tip of the Stetson,
Denny, from the abandoned corncrib....

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

just one word here. do not confuse double clutching and heel/toe as they can be used separately or together. if your trans is still good on synchros, then there really isn't any need to double clutch as it will take you longer to shift down and if you're braking hard you'll be through the corner before you get it down. a simple heel/toe will work and be far faster.

denny, it would have been sweet to make that movie at the theaters then. unfortunately i wasn't alive yet.

yayarx7

ummm... a clutch is a clutch no matter if, Fb, FD or a Honda.

BTW you can specify the specific forum to search, and only search the 1st gen forum.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

don't compare my clutch with a honda!!!!! bah

yayarx7

ok It is the same clutch as the clutch in a Ford Ranger...is that better

Pele

iTrader: (28)

I've learned to double clutch in my Honda.

It is pretty hard to heel-toe it though. Too much play in the brake system, not enough in the throttle.

To get enough braking force to slow me down in high speed curves, I'd have to rev the engine pretty high as it's hard to bend my ankle while my foot it torqued like that.

joethecomputerdude

has anyone noticed that when one is in a raceing situation... that if you pump the clutch in the middle of a powerstroke... i.e. if 2nd gear takes you from 2-7k rpm... if you pumped the clutch at about 4k rpm.. it would jump up to like 7k rpm, then when you released the clutch... it would fall back into second at 6k rpm, but it would catch like it was the very beginning of the stroke.. and it would feel like a little added power... and it would also let you shift from second to third with less time between and just the same amount of power??? could this be the double clutching that the movie is referring to?

peejay

It may feel faster but in actuality it's slower.

Think about what you are doing. You are pushing the clutch in, which cuts power to the wheels.

V8kilr

granny shifting

JALVORD_2003_68

ALL OF YOU HAVE NO IDEA
Double clutching came from way back when, 1940's or so, when trannies didn't have very good sychros so you have to shift out of the gear your in to get into neutral and shift from neutral to the next gear.

I may be a punk *** kid but i know this because we still run a 1940's International wheat truck that you HAVE TO double clutch otherwise you'll grind the hell out of the tranny. anyway