xman

I have a few questions about the wiring for DLIDFIS myself. I was thinking of using the stock trailing wiring harness as is. Making a new harness for each of the leading ignitors, using shielded wires from the dizzy pick-up to the leading ignitors, and hooking all of the coils in series as per jeff20B's wiring schematic. I was hoping that this way I would have power (from the trailing coil), and would still have the tach signal wire hooked up to the trailing coil. Would this work? My problem is that I am no electronics wiz, and I'm not sure if this would work. Was hoping that someone could give me some info so I don't fry anything!

REVHED

Yeah, that's pretty much how I done mine... though I'm not sure what you mean by "hooking all the coils in series." Basically what you do is hook up all the coil and ignitor postives in parallel on the same circuit and run seperate negatives from each ignitor to it's respective coil.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

All possible alternatives are discussed here or in the links given here...V8kilr would be the MSD guru for DLIDFIS, Jeff20B the "factory stock" guru of DLIDFIS and quite possibly the originator of the concept...send your royalty check to him...The Ultimate DLIDFIS link once again...

REVHED

*ahem* Not to sound like a ******** or blow my own horn or anything but Sterling was the person who brought the idea up and I was the first one to try it. Jeff20B kind of proclaimed the idea as his own.

peejay

I still prefer the MSD... DLIDFIS or whatever the hell it is won't give you multiple sparks at low RPM (therefore greatly enhancing low rpm driveability esp. in cold-weather startup) nor does it give you a rev limiter like if you get the MSD 6AL.

REVHED

Believe me, if and when I find an MSD at the right price it will be going straight in. There just too damn pricey over here... try 400-500 bucks new.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I first thought of doing DLIDFIS back in '99 when I first hooked up PMDFIS, but I didn't mess around with it because I was affraid of frying something. Infact, I first experimented with moving my Leading ignitor to the inner fender in '98 after I got my Cosmo (the AC bracket was in the way of the Leading ignitor after I switched to an electronic dizzy). Then right after Xmas of '00 (after I installed the MSD in my REPU) I hooked up DLIDFIS for the first time as an experiment. It worked, but needed slightly more RPM to spark both coils (the dizzy was spun by hand). I thought this wouldn't allow for slow speed starter cranking. I was wrong because if the battery has enough power to crank the engine, it'll still start with DLIDFIS.

Remember when I posted the info about how to test ignitors without needing to use a lightbulb? I was sort of feeling my way through the message board. Needless to say people really thought it was a good idea. It gave me the go ahead to post my info on how to hook up PMDFIS. Then we got to talking about DLIDFIS and Sterling and a few others were the first to try it. That's how I remember it, anyway.

REVHED

To be honest, that post was said tongue in cheek to give people a bit of an insight into the origin of "DLIDFIS"... not to flame you. But if you really want to know how it happened go back and read the original post on Mazspeed.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I needed to prove its effectiveness to myself, and since my 13B wasn't up to the task, I installed another kit on my friend's REPU, and the proof was undeniable. His REPU with stock ported roughly '77ish 13B, Dellorto, header exhaust and DLIDFIS can now beat most V6s on the road and many V8s. I wish I could remember a story or two, but this isn't the thread for that even if I could. I think I'll talk to him tomorrow.

One thing to remember is that if your engine is NA with a bad AF mixture, DLIDFIS will be a great improvement. However, if the mixture is already good, the improvement wont be as substantial. If it's fine most of the time, but stumbles around hard corners, DLIDFIS will reduce or eliminate it. Emissions will still be lowered in either case due to the extra spark (full duration hehe)on each rotor face. As for use on forced induction engines? It's how the stock T2s and FDs run, so it sure couldn't hurt

Sterling

Hmmm....REVHED, I do remember discussing this stuff with you, but I think Jeff had already begun putzing around with it, and honestly, I don't think I even knew for certain how the ignition (any ignition system) even worked at the time!

However, I will take full credit of being the number two (if not number one) guinea-pig, as I ran right out my door and tried it once I fully understood the whole thing.

I went out to my "doner bitch"; Got an ignitor, a coil, some wire, and some plug wires.

Guys, I did this to my car using plug wires that were spliced together! The cob job was so shitty, I could've started a thunderstorm from the arcing under my hood!
Even still, when I got out of my long driveway and floored it, I instantly buried my tach!!! The difference was amazing.

I pay attention to all the threads related to Jeffs idea because to this day, I don't know if it's really that freakin good, or if I had something wrong that I did'nt know about beforehand that got fixed when I did thwe conversion.
But I will say this, I did go back to stock, and it ran like it did before. I got a proper "do-it-yerself" plug wire kit, made an aluminum "half-a-six-pack" coil holder, and an aluminum ignitor block to hold and hide the wires of three ignitors.
I really did it up right. And it had the same effect.
-Now granted, I could well have had a cracked stock wire or something, but I had timed the car according to Yaws recommendation only weeks prior. It was obviously getting all spark at that time.

Jeffy can cheese-up his own creation - he don't need me to do it! But I will.

People have been screwing around with ignition stuff for years. Jeff, like many of us, stumbled upon something he thought was a new and a tres cool idea...kinda like me with my acccelerator pump mod - Only to find out that Holley carb builders in the old school have been doing it for years!
But Jeff took the time to present his findings to all of us, and did all his own research. He's stood accused of trying to reinvent the wheel (as I have, also), and of being a jerk- Of course all by MSD owners!!!
So Jeff endured all that crap to present his rotary bretheren with good ole fashoned back-yard, thin wallet mechanic advice - that REALLY WORKS!

Ala-******-luhia.

We need more guys like Jeff that are willing to go out and try new ideas on their friends trucks!
(Glad I don't live around the corner!)

...Now if you could just tell me what I need to do to eliminate the dizzy cap and rotor alltogether...I would still just use it for the pick-ups and timing, but it would have a spiffy aluminum cap for a cover.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

So patooie on you, revhed!! I remember reading all this craziness at Mazspeed before I ever knew about this forum and Jeff20B and geo something were the ones that made the biggest impression on me. You probably have a different alias at that site but I don't remember you or sterling from Mazspeed. Of course, I didn't stay long after I found this site....

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Thanks Sterling

Several of my plug wires were 10 years old (they came with my rotary powered MG Midget which hasn't ran since '90), and they still worked well. I only recently replaced the Trailing coil to cap wire because I noticed some electrically deposited dust forming in strange patterns all over it, and the boot at the coil. I had started getting a misfire now and then and suspected this particualr wire, but I needed to go do a couple of 360s in a dusty field to be sure (bad for air filters, but good for finding any little leaks in your wires). I swaped it out and viola! No more misfires.

Sterling, Dave Atkins' one rotor engines come with a standard '81-'85 but the reluctor has been shaved on both sides leaving only two @ 180º apart. The rest is stock (two pickups with standard split, two ignitors and two coils) with direct fire from each coil to each plug. This gives his engine full direct fire on Leading and Trailing. To top it off, in place of the dizzy cap sits a nice looking aluminum cap! It runs in single fire on the Leading and Trailing, as you would expect from a shaved reluctor.

I mentioned the one rotor engine because of the aluminum cap and direct fire on Trailing. In order to get direct fire on Trailing on a two rotor engine, it's a little bit more involved however. There would need to be a way to fire only one trailing coil per revolution, otherwise the engine won't want to run (ever hook up the Trailing plug wires backwards? hehe). The pickups will need to be spaced 90º from each other, which is impossible because of their size. A way to get around it is to mount one above the other, but then you'd need another shaved reluctor and the height increases. The trick that everybody should know is to shave off two points or vains or whatever they're called on the reluctor and install two of them, one for each Trailing plug. There's still the Leading pickup to consider which needs to keep a four vained reluctor because both plugs can still fire 180º from each other (at the same, or seperately like stock, but who wants to be stock?). When we're done, there would be three reluctors (two shaved, one intact) and three pickups, most likely stacked on top of each other at various locations around the dizzy. The shaft isn't even long enough for this. Not a very good use of space in my opinion.

So what do we do? Hmm...

1st7heaven

I hate to throw a wrench in things but this was being done in the 80s an early 90s on the IMSA GTU and GTO cars. I was introduced to it in 92 by Roger Mandeville from South Carolina who race for Mazda from the late 70s-90s! I will admit some of the mods are a little diff.

Anyway, I think it took all you guys to get this perfected! I appreciate everyone who has worked on this

Have you guys though about putting a manual together on this?

REVHED

Ok, I was only messing around before and didn't wanna have to do this but now you all have left me no choice.

Here's the original thread at Mazspeed. DLIDFIS

It's a big thread but if you scroll down to about half way you will find that it happened exactly as I said it did. Sterling brought the idea up after I posted why I didn't like the original single ignitor system and I went ahead and did it. Thus DLIDFIS was born.

Mar3, what the hell does patooie mean?

REVHED

Jeff 20B, I know of someone who shoe-horned an extra pickup into a 13B dizzy to run a 20B so anything's possible.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

something my Mom always says...same as phooey, I guess...how come the article/link starts with Jeff20B's entry?

1st7heaven

holy cow! I wanted to print that link and just did There is probably 100 or so pages!!!! Looks like some good reading material though! I will have to make a binder for it and put it next to the toilet with my other study material..hehe

REVHED

Read it and all will be revealed.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

My mistake...I ran to the center like you suggested and didn't read the first few lines...patooie on you, anyway!! Hehehehe...

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I had already experimented with it at least half a year earlier. Not on an actual engine, but on a dizzy that was removed from an engine so I could spin the shaft by hand to sort of feel how slow I could spin it and still get the coils to spark. This was also before I installed the MSD in my truck. I got the MSD on Xmas and started experimenting imediately. After I had finished installing the MSD, I found that the stock ignitors would still spark the coils at a really low speed. Dual Leading ignitors needed slightly more speed than single. I thought (at the time) that this was too slow for starter motor cranking speed to start the engine. It was still cold outside and PMDFIS was running well enough for me. Why change it? Summer is my time to do cool experiments on my cars. Experimentation on actual engines proved that it would be ok. Then, my dying battery proved that if it'll still crank, it'll still start (summertime of course). I was just affraid of frying an ignitor or coil in a long term under-hood installation. That's why I let you guys be the guinea pigs So far, the kits I've installed are still running perfectly.

Sterling

Alright...alright! So we all had a hand in reinventing the super ignition wheel.
Everybody gets a gold star. There are even more people then that thread demonstrates that put effort into testing; Even as far as getting on a dyno.

I wanna talk about the trailing ignition and dizzy cap n' rotor!

So it's too much work to omitt entirely the cap and rotor. But, does anyone know of perhaps a three cylinder cap that'll fit?
Something! That tall-*** cap looks ridiculous with only three wires hanging out of it!

Blitz0309

Alright, so if a guy wanted to save up for a msd system, which of these would be the best for a 7?

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/chucker54/capdisigcon.html

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Right Sterling. We all had a hand in its development. I just didn't want to test it on my vehicle because it was freezing outside.

Sterling, do you have access to any '71-'73 style twin dizzy caps? They kinda look like two cylinder caps because there's one in and two outs. (spaced 90º from each other). The only prob is that they're really short and the rotors are probably really narrow, or at least as narrow as the '74-'79 points dizzy shafts. The way I described full direct fire on Trailing, you'd need to almost stack the parts on top of eachother to fit them all on the shaft. This leaves very little room for the smallish twin dizzy caps. By the way, there probably is enough room under the '74-'79 caps. I've done some rough fitting (I had to grind out the little plastic ears so it would fit on the '81-'85 dizzy housing, but it allowed an extra reluctor to spin when mounted at the top of the shaft). If and when I finish a full direct fire system, I'll probably be using the '74-'79 cap, just to be different. Note, the carbon button was rubbing the tape I used to momentarilly secure the reluctor. I think the '80-'85 caps' carbon buttons are at the same height though.

Sterling, maybe the '81-'85 rotor shortened to remove the Trailing section so it's only a 'T' will fit under a '74 to '79 cap? Maybe I'll look into it today.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Go with MOPP4876728, red is way overdone and the black case will do two things...kill all the graphics screaming MOPAR but leave the pentastar if its on the case. Now you can say you've got a Mitsi box or a DaimlerMercedes box if you want for styling points. Two, the black paint is a better thermal radiator so the components will run fractionally cooler for a theoretical fractionally longer time. It will last longer.
A lot of ideas have floated for centuries, but the guy that gets credit for "inventing" it is the one that put it down on paper for history and scholars to judge. I hereby proclaim Jeff20B the "inventor" of the stock DLIDFIS system as opposed to the failed MSD idea...

mar3

iTrader: (8)

See what craziness you started? And you never chimed in again as this thread became heated with ego bashing and circus pomposity. The least you coulda done was chime in, "What's wrong with you guys? No one sees any of this except for a handful of people in this giant teeming world. Calm yer asses down and help me. I don't want to bother with the search feature..." or something like that...