inittab

I just want to take a moment and thank Jon (vipernicus42) for the awesome job he did with his
Decarbonizing A Rotary article. He spent a lot of time researching and writing the article and he deserves a --> <--

If anyone would like to comment on the article or would like to add anything to the disussion, please use this thread for that.

Sterling

ALLELUIA, people!
That is a FANTASTIC write-up.
Man, I've been bitching like a sissy for over a year about these folks who post to new-bes to "Jess toss some ATF down 'er throat."

...I have to read it again, but did you say specifically how much to use? (I might've missed it.)

I think we need some "hurrah"s for Vipernicus!

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I skimmed through and will read it fully later. I didn't see anything about pouring water down 'er throat.

slashdawg00110

Nothing to add. Just a big "thank you" to jon for his efforts. Informative and well-written.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Everybody,

I really appreciate the positive response

I just wanted to do something that would contribute to the forum.

Jeff, I did indeed find somewhere to put the water It's in the "Carbon Buildup" section, the part about "steaming".

Sterling, I didn't specify how much really, but I think the word "alot" probably sums up the sentiment. Because of the way I've suggested to purge it all out, it doesn't matter if you use quite a bit. It worked well for me, I probably used about half a bottle.

Always open to feedback, and firsthand accounts of people's experiences.

Jon

Sterling

It's an excellent write up, Jon. Top notch.
(I got loads o' crap I think I'll just send to you to write for my site. )

I really love it when people contribute to make this site better, but you've gone "above & beyond" the call of duty.

Thanks again.

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

Nicely done - obviously you've researched these topics and have written a very well organized and informative article. I don't, however, agree with your comments on synthetic oil but that's just my opinion - but thanks for what hopefully will be the "end all" to the ATF / MMO post overload - once again, nice job

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I figured the synthetic oil thing would be a little tongue-and-cheek.

I did make sure to say that it was my opinion, and that it wasn't "my place to start a holy war". I've read both sides for so long that I basically just settled for the "safe, cheap and easy" non-syn side. Hell, if I'm gonna change my oil once every 4k km anyway, who cares if it's syn?

I definitely respect all you synthetic users out there, there's been alot of good talk on both sides. I just thought that the article should show something "better safe than sorry" and place "my opinion" infront of it to make sure people didn't think it was word as fact.


Keep the comments coming! I wanna make this the best damn article it can be :P
Jon

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Ok, cool!

Metallic_rock

Ok, I have comments and questions-

I did the water thing... poured 12 oz bottle down the carb really slowly... no squirt bottle. the internal temps of the engine make it so the water will evaporate instantly, so I wasn't worried about that much. you just have to have someone hold the engine at around 3k while you do it. It did a VERY good job of smoothing out my idle. (it was kinda lumpy before)


Question- Why shouldn't you pour ATF/MMO down the carb? I've done it before and saw no adverse effects. (that I know of!)

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

ATF doesn't like to burn, so when it does, it clogs cats becuase it produces solids during the combustion process. I don't think MMO does that. Also, ATF is hard on rubber seals.

Metallic_rock

Ok, I knew that much, but in the article it specifically said not to pour it down the carb. It said you could use it, just don't pour it in the carb.. I was wondering why.

cosmicbang

Good question. If ATF is bad for rubber then you wouldn't want it to damage any rubber in the carb, but why not MMO? The funny thing is back in the 80's someone from Racing Beat actually told me to pour ATF down the carb!! (there were no cats on the car btw)

Fuel524

yeah it is a well thought out thread. just a question though when you are in the decarboning process should you see any kind of steam of smoke like the burning off of the carbon. also a suggestion to the spray bottle would be if you dont have someone to help you you can purchase for around 10$ a insecticide spray botlle the one with the hand pump and 3 foot hose with trigger handle, this allows you to stand outside of the car with your foot on the gas and spray mist of water down the carb. also this thing works great for degreasing your engine bay to find leaks some degreaser then fill it up with boiling hot water then spray down where you sprayed degreaser immaculate.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Well, I certainly hope MMO doesn't kill rubber seals because it's been sitting in my 20B since last year after. I cranked the engine without the plugs in to pump out the excess. Only a little puddle is sitting at the bottom of each rotor housing right now. I guess I'll see how badly it smokes and/or blows compression into the waterjacket.

inittab

I remember reading somewhere that o-rings swell up when put into MMO. That would be a good thing right?

Wankelguy

Maybe if they're shrunk to begin with, but I'd have to wonder what the MMO was actually doing to the rubber to make it swell.

I think the safest thing would be to have NO discernible effect on rubber, myself.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Damn,

I got on the forum, saw this thread up near the top and the poster as "WankleGuy". I was like "dude, he found the quote about him in the article".. but sadly, it gets nary a mention

hehe... just pokin' fun at ya,
Jon

PS: I *know* ATF swells rubber, but I haven't heard anyone say anything concrete about MMO. If it does that as well, then there shouldn't me much advantage of MMO over ATF. Anyone who has some real info is invited to bring it forward.

Sterling

Really it's the oil burning off or the water steaming. Carbon doesn't burn at engine temperatures (at Earthly temperatures! )

You can simply operate the primary throttle shaft by hand while pouring whatever down the carb.




Regarding pouring down the carb...

It isn't going to hurt anything to pour anything down there.
My bitch-gripe was when this was suggested for a no-start situation. The results could be anything from ridiculous flooding to plug fouling to a painful facial exfoliation!
What would cook my beacon about it was that for the purposes of inducing chamber sealing, only a capful down each primary runner is needed, and that part was always too often forgotten by the advisor.

As for pouring oil down the carb, be it ATF or MMO, for the purposes of decarbonizing the rotors, the engine must be turning in order to coat the rotor faces.
Pull the plugs and turn it by hand, and that's fine.
But some may have gotten the wrong idea in the past that oil should be poured down the carb of a running engine!
This would be at least nonproductive, if not counter-productive.
But it will destroy a catalytic converter in no time.


Jon, perhaps mention that you should avoid inhaling the smoke.
(Well, then again...If someone's that stupid, maybe we don't want him contributing to the gene pool )

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

I barely got any smoke with mine. I think pouring down the carb would leave a film of it on the inside of the intake manifold which can't be scraped off like the apexes scrape the walls of the chamber... It might smoke a little more, but would definitely allow access to the apex on that side.

The only gripe I have with it, is that after the ATF/MMO/Amsoil passes the intake on that side, it drips down the walls of the combustion chamber and out into the exhaust manifold. You can't stop it. So more gets into your cats.

I'd say avoid putting it in the intake manifold unless you absolutely have to and either 1) have no cats or 2) have the engine out of the car so that you can purge it properly.

Jon

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Hey Guys,

When I wrote this article, I wrote it to be helpful to those on the forum that seemed to be in need of the information. A short two years ago I didn't have much knowledge of our wonderful cars, but through my restoration project car, manuals (Heynes and Factory), online websites and the wonderful people on this forum I have learned a lot, and wanted to give something back.

Today I recieved an e-mail which almost made me fall off my chair. I hope the author won't mind me posting it, because I felt I should share it with you guys. The e-mail is from Kathy Atkins of ATKINS ROTARY!

The information provided by Kathy (as well as information I'm gathering from other first-hand testimonial articles) will be added next update.

Thank you to all who have sent in their experiences and methods to help out (damn, I've gotta stop thanking people... I've made too many thank you posts!).

And thank you Kathy for those kind words. It feels great to be noticed by an actual, respected rotary shop.

Jon

Rx7carl

Awsome work my friend. (I know I said this to you via email, just wanted to thank you publicly).


PS- Will you write my biography?

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Exerpt from "The Life And Times Of Rx7Carl"

"The early years of Carl's life were known as the 'dark ages'. These dark ages were filled with a rotor-less emptieness until one day, Carl bought his first rotary car....."

hehe...

On a side note, am I a noob ?
(see that link for my rebuttal. The link to the original article is contained in the quotes)

Jon

slashdawg00110

I thought the article was well-written and researched.

Noob? Whatever. They're just jealous, eh?

Keep up the good work, jon.

Rx7carl

We all start out as noob's. Some of us never progress beyond that stage. You have learned much grasshopper. So screw them and their comments.