Cold/Ram air box fabrication for my ITB
06-17-09, 10:06 AM
#26
For some technical insight into ram air, here's a link. It's a good read.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
06-17-09, 03:41 PM
#27
For some technical insight into ram air, here's a link. It's a good read.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
As for the Yaw manifold, I've looked at that multiple times before but I don't think that I have enough area under the hood to make something like that. I totally didn't see that 22hp increase till you mentioned it. Would've been nice to see the graph differences though.
I would really like to make my own intake manifold (going longer most likely also) to bring the curve down a bit. My peak torque is at about 7k rpm and my peak HP is at 7.2krpm. So not as broad as I'd like it. My torque is still pretty flat in the top end though so I would assume there's more potential (From 5600 to 7400 rpm the torque only varies by about 5 ft-lb through out that range). If i moved it down to say from 4500 to 6500 rpm I think the car will be better to drive like that. I just really don't know how to go on about making my on intake manifold (well the runners atleast).
Does anyone know if you can get the intake flange CAD files from the web somewhere or all the dimentions atleast?
06-17-09, 05:09 PM
#28
Yeah, that's a good reason. 
If you made part of the bottom of the box (or the fender side, depending on where your tool needs to approach from) removable via a couple screws, you could provide for more tool clearance.
In your example photo with the 4 horns in it, if you had trouble getting to the nuts on the bottom of the horn, you could make part of the bottom removeable from the inside, allowing for more tool swing. Cut a hole, then cover it from the inside with a larger plate with screws into tapped holes in the box.
Alternately, you could make it so that the part that the carb horns come in thru is just a flat base, and the whole box bolts over that baseplate - - like an air hat lying on its side. The bottom side could attach via a slot and tab arrangement, so you don't have to do any screws down there near the exhausts.
Just thinking out loud.
If you made part of the bottom of the box (or the fender side, depending on where your tool needs to approach from) removable via a couple screws, you could provide for more tool clearance.
In your example photo with the 4 horns in it, if you had trouble getting to the nuts on the bottom of the horn, you could make part of the bottom removeable from the inside, allowing for more tool swing. Cut a hole, then cover it from the inside with a larger plate with screws into tapped holes in the box.
Alternately, you could make it so that the part that the carb horns come in thru is just a flat base, and the whole box bolts over that baseplate - - like an air hat lying on its side. The bottom side could attach via a slot and tab arrangement, so you don't have to do any screws down there near the exhausts.
Just thinking out loud.
06-17-09, 11:18 PM
#30
There's always money to be spend on improving everything, its just a matter of where on the list do you start. Where would you have suggested to start on though?
As for the access plate things, I don't want to do too many neither. I would like a box that I can use for NA, also to have something for later on when I do my rotrex supercharger. The maine difference between the 2 will be the way the plumbing goes. I think if I redo this one it will have 2 x 4" inlets (somehow), and I would like to have what ever plates on there to be removable in some sort so that I can just take it out and plumb one single 3" or so pipe for the supercharger setup.
So keeping that in the back of my mind is what makes this even more frustrating.
As for the access plate things, I don't want to do too many neither. I would like a box that I can use for NA, also to have something for later on when I do my rotrex supercharger. The maine difference between the 2 will be the way the plumbing goes. I think if I redo this one it will have 2 x 4" inlets (somehow), and I would like to have what ever plates on there to be removable in some sort so that I can just take it out and plumb one single 3" or so pipe for the supercharger setup.
So keeping that in the back of my mind is what makes this even more frustrating.
06-18-09, 10:54 AM
#34
Well, if you built the original air box they made, you would have plenty of volume and space to work. 
Just might need to lose the hood and get some REALLY big ITBs to fill the holes, though. lol.
Maybe you should build a template (cardboard or whatever) and adjust the design as needed to clear everything.
For access to the bottom nuts, how about a couple holes directly lined up with those nuts (similar to the jets in the bottom of the Nikki float bowls)? This would only require drilling two holes and welding nuts to the backside (inside) for threads. Use ones large enough to clear a socket/extension combo. This will give an airtight seal, but still allow access when you need it. This will only work if there is clearance between the horns an the box for the socket.
Just might need to lose the hood and get some REALLY big ITBs to fill the holes, though. lol.Maybe you should build a template (cardboard or whatever) and adjust the design as needed to clear everything.
For access to the bottom nuts, how about a couple holes directly lined up with those nuts (similar to the jets in the bottom of the Nikki float bowls)? This would only require drilling two holes and welding nuts to the backside (inside) for threads. Use ones large enough to clear a socket/extension combo. This will give an airtight seal, but still allow access when you need it. This will only work if there is clearance between the horns an the box for the socket.
06-18-09, 11:13 AM
#35
Here's another link from Yaw. This one is on a 1st gen. Admittedly he has a TII intake manifold on this one but if your tb's are pointed in this direction, fabbing up an intake like this might work.
http://www.yawpower.com/sep2004.html
http://www.yawpower.com/sep2004.html
06-18-09, 11:18 AM
#36
Well, if you built the original air box they made, you would have plenty of volume and space to work. Just might need to lose the hood and get some REALLY big ITBs to fill the holes, though. lol.
Maybe you should build a template (cardboard or whatever) and adjust the design as needed to clear everything.
For access to the bottom nuts, how about a couple holes directly lined up with those nuts (similar to the jets in the bottom of the Nikki float bowls)? This would only require drilling two holes and welding nuts to the backside (inside) for threads. Use ones large enough to clear a socket/extension combo. This will give an airtight seal, but still allow access when you need it. This will only work if there is clearance between the horns an the box for the socket.
Just might need to lose the hood and get some REALLY big ITBs to fill the holes, though. lol.Maybe you should build a template (cardboard or whatever) and adjust the design as needed to clear everything.
For access to the bottom nuts, how about a couple holes directly lined up with those nuts (similar to the jets in the bottom of the Nikki float bowls)? This would only require drilling two holes and welding nuts to the backside (inside) for threads. Use ones large enough to clear a socket/extension combo. This will give an airtight seal, but still allow access when you need it. This will only work if there is clearance between the horns an the box for the socket.
06-18-09, 11:20 AM
#37
Here's another link from Yaw. This one is on a 1st gen. Admittedly he has a TII intake manifold on this one but if your tb's are pointed in this direction, fabbing up an intake like this might work.
http://www.yawpower.com/sep2004.html
http://www.yawpower.com/sep2004.html
06-18-09, 01:36 PM
#38
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For some technical insight into ram air, here's a link. It's a good read.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
http://www.vararam.com/ramairinaroadcar.html
This intake on an engine that Paul Yaw built was good for 22 hp over the previous intake.
http://www.yawpower.com/dec2004.html
Keep in mind that engine with it's gigantic ports were built for race use only. the lack of low to midrange power also forced them to later change the intake manifold back to a STOCK S4 n/a manifold due to it's long runners! Obviously the manifold had some massaging doe to it. The point though is to show that he used a VERY large amount of inlet area to the airbox and picked up alot of power.
"we found that the existing airbox knocked 22 horsepower off the top end,so of course we built a new one"
this means they did some runs with the old airbox and without the old airbox. finding that the old airbox was down on power, vs nothing.
he does not mention results of the new setup at all.
06-18-09, 03:02 PM
#39
just a note from the legal dept, and i just noticed this too but it says
"we found that the existing airbox knocked 22 horsepower off the top end,so of course we built a new one"
this means they did some runs with the old airbox and without the old airbox. finding that the old airbox was down on power, vs nothing.
he does not mention results of the new setup at all.
"we found that the existing airbox knocked 22 horsepower off the top end,so of course we built a new one"
this means they did some runs with the old airbox and without the old airbox. finding that the old airbox was down on power, vs nothing.
he does not mention results of the new setup at all.
06-18-09, 03:13 PM
#40
Yaw also changed the intake manifold since then. I do know what power numbers he got to the wheels but if I told everyone they'd instantly think they could port their engines just like his and get those results too when there was really so much more to it than just the porting. That's probably why he doesn't tell the numbers. They are damned impressive though! They picked up 22 hp over the old airbox which is why they said it knocked off power. A good intake shouldn't take away any power. The point is to show that it takes a pretty large intake before it's not hurting power in any way. After seeing that how can anyone think a 2nd gen afm isn't a restriction? My magnahelic gauge that I'm using for testing sure thinks it is.
07-01-09, 01:38 PM
#41
well for anybody that is curious here's what the failure results look like 
a nive piece of paper weight probably now ... Atleast i can still salvage the throttle bracket
Sorry for the shitty quality btw, battery was last second on battery life and had to do it really quickly.
a nive piece of paper weight probably now ... Atleast i can still salvage the throttle bracketSorry for the shitty quality btw, battery was last second on battery life and had to do it really quickly.
07-02-09, 12:27 AM
#46
the problem is that its hitting the engine while trying to fit it on. So it goes a bit too far down and can't really use a flange like that to mate it to it. There's really nothing wrong with the fabrication, just design pretty much.
07-02-09, 12:19 PM
#47
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well for anybody that is curious here's what the failure results look like a nive piece of paper weight probably now ... Atleast i can still salvage the throttle bracket
Sorry for the shitty quality btw, battery was last second on battery life and had to do it really quickly.
G]
a nive piece of paper weight probably now ... Atleast i can still salvage the throttle bracketSorry for the shitty quality btw, battery was last second on battery life and had to do it really quickly.
G]
07-02-09, 12:24 PM
#48
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Yaw also changed the intake manifold since then. I do know what power numbers he got to the wheels but if I told everyone they'd instantly think they could port their engines just like his and get those results too when there was really so much more to it than just the porting. That's probably why he doesn't tell the numbers. They are damned impressive though! They picked up 22 hp over the old airbox which is why they said it knocked off power. A good intake shouldn't take away any power. The point is to show that it takes a pretty large intake before it's not hurting power in any way. After seeing that how can anyone think a 2nd gen afm isn't a restriction? My magnahelic gauge that I'm using for testing sure thinks it is.
pics were taken in 2004, and thats a really long time for a race car
09-02-09, 02:49 AM
#50
well might have a way to kill 2 birds with one stone sort of speak. Make the intake longer by adding a spacer inbetween the upper and lower manifold. That will give me more clearance between the block and the intake, and also give me longer runners which is what I've wanted for a while. It's obviously not going to be much longer but probably like a 1/2" spacer or so.