CAS in 1st gen
10-06-06, 03:43 PM
#2
It's not easy. The only people I know who have done it have put in an aftermarket ECU. GSL-SE Addict in the 1st Gen section is going to be working on an ignition control computer which will hopefully allow us to run a 2nd Gen CAS and 2nd Gen coils in an FB without us having to buy a whole FI-computer system. For the time being, it's better just going DLIDFIS or 2GDFIS for ignition upgrades and leaving the dizzy intact.
Jon
Jon
10-06-06, 10:49 PM
#4
FB+FC=F-ME
The leading would work since they can both fire simutaneously(direct-fire).Just run the CAS leading signal to an MSD6 and away you go.
But the FC ECU is needed to seperate the trailing signals into T1 and T2 and send the appropriate signal to the correct trailing coil.
But the FC ECU is needed to seperate the trailing signals into T1 and T2 and send the appropriate signal to the correct trailing coil.
10-07-06, 09:22 AM
#5
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CAS vs. Eccentric Shaft-Triggered ignition
What is the difference between a CAS and the Eccentric Shaft-Triggered capacitive discharge ignition system sold by Racing Beat for many years? They seem to work the same way.
From 1985 Racing Beat technical manual and catalog:
From 1985 Racing Beat technical manual and catalog:
The Eccentric Shaft Triggered Capacitive Discharge Ignition System was developed by Racing Beat to be the best racing ignition system available for a rotary. This system starts with our race-proven 7mm V-belt and pulleys for the eccentric shaft, water pump and alternator. Then we install two "rare earth" high strength magnets in the eccentric shaft pulley and include a special "Hall Effect Cell" pickup assembly. Finally, we add two special high energy C.D. ignition boxes and two C.D. coils. This system is not only a high energy, zero-maintenance, highly reliable ignition, but also provides the correct water pump and alternator drive ratio. The pickup assembly presses into the front seal recess, so no machining is necessary to install the kit. The pickup assembly is designed to allow the leading or trailing timing to be adjusted independently to any practical timing you desire. In addition, since the trigger for this system is completely external to the distributor, it is possible to leave the distributor triggering device (points or breakerless) in place as a backup to the electronic components. A diagram is included detailing the a ppropriate connections to allow driver control of hte switching between points and eccentric shaft triggered ignition.
12A, 13B cast iron water pump Part No. 11535
12A, 13B aluminum water pump Part No. 11535
Over-Rev Limiter Part No. 11550
12A, 13B cast iron water pump Part No. 11535
12A, 13B aluminum water pump Part No. 11535
Over-Rev Limiter Part No. 11550
Last edited by n2318r; 10-07-06 at 09:26 AM.
10-07-06, 12:23 PM
#6
hmm... Well since I remembered seeing this I did a search for an old thread so I didn't have to retype. Voila:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=CAS
And that system from racing beat doesn't sound at all like a CAS... in fact to install a CAS you have to remove the distributor and put the CAS in it's place. Right in that description they say you can leave your dizzy intact as a backup.
Jon
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=CAS
And that system from racing beat doesn't sound at all like a CAS... in fact to install a CAS you have to remove the distributor and put the CAS in it's place. Right in that description they say you can leave your dizzy intact as a backup.
Jon
10-07-06, 09:47 PM
#7
FB+FC=F-ME
The RB setup is exactly the route that Mazda went with the FD engine.
The CAS is better than a distributor,but only because it does away with wearing components on the secondary system......rotor,cap,carbon buttons and all those contacts and high tension wires.The primary system on the CAS is functionally no different than an 80-85 dizzy.Both are crank driven,off a bevel gear...... which while effective,does require for the power to change directions and travel through a minor amount of gear slop.That results in a minor(but measurable) fluctuation in timing as the engine accelerates and decelerates.Not to mention the minor parasitic HP draw needed to run the distributor.
The FD and Racing Beat crank fired systems do away with all the mechanical bits of the dizzy/CAS.The trigger pins are mounted directly to the front of the E-shaft and the pickup modules are bolted to the front cover,taking signals directly from the shaft.The ignition system fires the plugs according to the E-shafts position,and the crank fired system is the most accurate and stable because its physically part of the E-shaft.....
The fact that the RB system is capacitive is of no consequence.The capaciters are part of the secondary system and could be fitted to any car's ignition(MSD6A).The crank fired system is all about getting the primary(low voltage) timing signal, accurately and consistantly.
The CAS is better than a distributor,but only because it does away with wearing components on the secondary system......rotor,cap,carbon buttons and all those contacts and high tension wires.The primary system on the CAS is functionally no different than an 80-85 dizzy.Both are crank driven,off a bevel gear...... which while effective,does require for the power to change directions and travel through a minor amount of gear slop.That results in a minor(but measurable) fluctuation in timing as the engine accelerates and decelerates.Not to mention the minor parasitic HP draw needed to run the distributor.
The FD and Racing Beat crank fired systems do away with all the mechanical bits of the dizzy/CAS.The trigger pins are mounted directly to the front of the E-shaft and the pickup modules are bolted to the front cover,taking signals directly from the shaft.The ignition system fires the plugs according to the E-shafts position,and the crank fired system is the most accurate and stable because its physically part of the E-shaft.....
The fact that the RB system is capacitive is of no consequence.The capaciters are part of the secondary system and could be fitted to any car's ignition(MSD6A).The crank fired system is all about getting the primary(low voltage) timing signal, accurately and consistantly.
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10-08-06, 11:03 AM
#8
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The CAS has no "leading" or "trailing" signal.
It contains two reluctors, a 2 tooth and a 24 tooth.
The two tooth reluctor is the sync signal which tells the ECU when rotor 1 comes up on TDC.
The 24 tooth reluctor is the reference signal which tells the ECU the position of the engine. This allows it to calculate when to fire the ignition and injectors.
I could be totally wrong but I would not assume you can use the sync signal to fire the leading coils directly. I don't know offhand if passes the sensor when the rotors are approaching TDC as I've never observed this. I would assume that it at least corresponds to rotor #1 at TDC.
Even if the 2 tooth circuit crosses the reluctor at the right time, the signal strength is WAY too low to fire an ignitor directly. And there won't be any timing control.
The reference circuit is useless unless you start chopping teeth off the wheel but then good luck getting the trailing toggle to work.
It contains two reluctors, a 2 tooth and a 24 tooth.
The two tooth reluctor is the sync signal which tells the ECU when rotor 1 comes up on TDC.
The 24 tooth reluctor is the reference signal which tells the ECU the position of the engine. This allows it to calculate when to fire the ignition and injectors.
I could be totally wrong but I would not assume you can use the sync signal to fire the leading coils directly. I don't know offhand if passes the sensor when the rotors are approaching TDC as I've never observed this. I would assume that it at least corresponds to rotor #1 at TDC.
Even if the 2 tooth circuit crosses the reluctor at the right time, the signal strength is WAY too low to fire an ignitor directly. And there won't be any timing control.
The reference circuit is useless unless you start chopping teeth off the wheel but then good luck getting the trailing toggle to work.
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demetlaw
3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002)
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10-02-15 06:22 PM