Building a cheap daily beater
07-03-07, 08:26 AM
#27
O damn I went to atkins site to check out the rebuild kits. Now I need to know how to tell which engine I have (79-80, 81-82, 83-85) Because Im going to order a kit once I get the specs and see what I need. So if anyone can help with specs and how to tell which engine is which year I thank you a lot.
07-03-07, 11:55 AM
#28
Specs are best found in the shop manuals. Either pick up a Heynes manual from a local car parts store, or in the factory shop manual, found here:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/manuals.html
As for finding out which year engine you have, it's a little tough, but post a few pics and we'll see what we can figure out.
Jon
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/manuals.html
As for finding out which year engine you have, it's a little tough, but post a few pics and we'll see what we can figure out.
Jon
07-03-07, 01:01 PM
#31
Awsome, I was gonna take pics anyways because I wanted to be able to show proof how good of condition it is if I ever sell the car later on. I will have pics up later today. Is there anything specific you want pics of to narrow it down? This engine is simply amazing, theres barely any carbon so its gonna be a breeze cleaning it up. Who ever owned this engine really took good care of it. I also wanted to do some porting soon, I checked racing beats site and didnt find any 12A porting templates. Is there any site for theses? If not then can someone post up pics of how there port jobs look like? Since its going to super cheap to rebuild this I will have a decent amount of money left over. What else should I start upgrading? Thanks for checking up on this thread VIPERNICUS and JEFF20B I glad theres some people who actully check in on certain threads and add there input. - Nick
07-03-07, 01:31 PM
#32
Take pictures of these if you can.
A rotor housing from the side so I can see the internal bracing.
A rotor housing from the top.
A rotor face so I can see whether it has an N in the casting near the R or F.
The front counterweight.
The front cover under the OMP. It may or may not have a circular depression in the casting for an oil return (From the 12A turbo model).
The oil pan sealing lip.
The top of the carb.
If you can provide these pictures, I can narrow it down significantly. If it's from an RX-7, I can give you the year spread and series. If it's '78 or earlier (pre RX-7), I'll do my best.
A rotor housing from the side so I can see the internal bracing.
A rotor housing from the top.
A rotor face so I can see whether it has an N in the casting near the R or F.
The front counterweight.
The front cover under the OMP. It may or may not have a circular depression in the casting for an oil return (From the 12A turbo model).
The oil pan sealing lip.
The top of the carb.
If you can provide these pictures, I can narrow it down significantly. If it's from an RX-7, I can give you the year spread and series. If it's '78 or earlier (pre RX-7), I'll do my best.
07-04-07, 01:30 PM
#34
So there are the pics, I couldnt get one of the carb because I got this engine as a shortblock. Also it turns out that I had a FB FSM the whole time and never knew it till now. So soon I will be checking everything and making sure everything really is within spec. JEFF20B I hope these pics are good enough for you to tell me what year engine I have. And I took a pic of both sides of the oil pan because I wasn't sure what side you wanted to see. - Nick
07-04-07, 03:07 PM
#35
Hold on, you have an actual physical copy of the FB FSM? Those are bloody rare...
Anyhow the "H" shape on the top of the rotor housing tells me that it's not a 79-80... I know my '84 has that H, but the SA housings I picked up have a solid square piece there. I remember asking the question at some point on here.
Other than that I can't really narrow it down by looking at it. Though that oil pan looks odd to me. If I'm seeing it right, the oil level sensor and the oil drain plug are on the same side, and both my '84 and my '79 engines don't have that.
Jeff?
Jon
Edit: You're right about them looking like they're in good condition though. They definitely don't look bad at all from what I can see. A little cleaning and a new rebuild kit and you'll be back in business in no time. You lucked in, big time!
Anyhow the "H" shape on the top of the rotor housing tells me that it's not a 79-80... I know my '84 has that H, but the SA housings I picked up have a solid square piece there. I remember asking the question at some point on here.
Other than that I can't really narrow it down by looking at it. Though that oil pan looks odd to me. If I'm seeing it right, the oil level sensor and the oil drain plug are on the same side, and both my '84 and my '79 engines don't have that.
Jeff?
Jon
Edit: You're right about them looking like they're in good condition though. They definitely don't look bad at all from what I can see. A little cleaning and a new rebuild kit and you'll be back in business in no time. You lucked in, big time!
07-04-07, 03:22 PM
#36
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i think its 81-82 cause its got the small front counterwieght. rotor housings and irons are basically the same from 81-85, rotors and counter weights are the big difference.
um 81-82 rotors will have an "F" or "R" stamped in the combustion chamber, 83-85 rotors have "FN" or "RN' stamped in em
um 81-82 rotors will have an "F" or "R" stamped in the combustion chamber, 83-85 rotors have "FN" or "RN' stamped in em
07-04-07, 03:58 PM
#37
Thank you both! Oh and Joh sorry to bring your hopes up but I didnt mean that, I ment the haynes manual. I'll check over the rotors and see which year it can be. Hopefully someone else reads this and puts in there input on what year my engine could be. I'll keep updated ever so often If i can. Thanks, Nick
07-04-07, 05:12 PM
#39
The front cover doesn't appear to have the oil return casting. So it's NOT '84-'85. Could be '83 or older.
The oil pan is from an S5 2nd gen (13B). I'm not sure why you included it with your 12A pictures.
The rotor housing appears to have the extra internal bracing that Mazda started to use in '83 for the 12A turbo models.
On the top it has two H castings. The smaller H denotes either '81-'82 or '83-'85. I can't remember. I'd need to dig out my sets and look at them, which I can't do at the moment.
Mike, that front counterweight is '83-'85, not '81-'82. Little too much drinkin' on the holiday? j/k
bansheerider29x, that rotor housing that the counterweight is leaning against is from a 2nd gen engine.
Mike, Jon, and everyone else, '83 to '85 rotors are stamped with F at the top and N at the bottom, or R at the top and N at the bottom. There is no FN rotor. Heh.
If I had to guess based on the pictures above, I'd say it's an '83 engine.
Yep, a 1983 engine. Hurray!
bansheerider29x, can you tell me what type of heater core fitting it has on the rear plate below the oil filter area? It's kind of at the middle near the water temp sensor and oil pressure mushroom sender thing. If your mushroom is removed it will just have a small threaded hole. Anyway the heater core fitting will either have a T shape with two ends or a single 1.5" long straight fitting. If you can tell me which type you have, it would confirm that your engine is '83 or something else.
The oil pan is from an S5 2nd gen (13B). I'm not sure why you included it with your 12A pictures.
The rotor housing appears to have the extra internal bracing that Mazda started to use in '83 for the 12A turbo models.
On the top it has two H castings. The smaller H denotes either '81-'82 or '83-'85. I can't remember. I'd need to dig out my sets and look at them, which I can't do at the moment.
Mike, that front counterweight is '83-'85, not '81-'82. Little too much drinkin' on the holiday? j/k
bansheerider29x, that rotor housing that the counterweight is leaning against is from a 2nd gen engine.
Mike, Jon, and everyone else, '83 to '85 rotors are stamped with F at the top and N at the bottom, or R at the top and N at the bottom. There is no FN rotor. Heh.
If I had to guess based on the pictures above, I'd say it's an '83 engine.
Yep, a 1983 engine. Hurray!
bansheerider29x, can you tell me what type of heater core fitting it has on the rear plate below the oil filter area? It's kind of at the middle near the water temp sensor and oil pressure mushroom sender thing. If your mushroom is removed it will just have a small threaded hole. Anyway the heater core fitting will either have a T shape with two ends or a single 1.5" long straight fitting. If you can tell me which type you have, it would confirm that your engine is '83 or something else.
07-04-07, 05:36 PM
#40
Well, I think the beehive appeared halfway through the '83 build year, so that might not be the best indication.. though it would tell him if it's a direct swap for what he's got.
As I said the "H" on top of the rotor housings appears on my '84, but not on my '79-80s, so I'd guess it wouldn't be '81-82.
Good detective work Jeff
Jon
As I said the "H" on top of the rotor housings appears on my '84, but not on my '79-80s, so I'd guess it wouldn't be '81-82.
Good detective work Jeff
Jon
07-04-07, 05:48 PM
#41
Im glad to hear you guys could figure this out for me. First off though sorry about the oil pan, that was the one that came on the engine. I dont get how it is a 13B oil pan but yet it was on my engine. How can this be? Also I know the CW is leaning againt an FC housing, Im using those on my S4/S5 T2 build. About the heater core fitting I deff remember it being a "T" and not straight. I hope that also makes it confirm thats an 83. Thanks
07-05-07, 12:23 PM
#42
Well, at the very least the "T" fitting confirms it'll fit in your '84GS without any problems.
The "T" is for the "beehive" oil cooler that sits under your oil filter. From 79-82 and the first *half* of the 83 model year, front-mounted oil coolers were used. then 83.5-85 S, GS and GSL models had the stupid water-to-oil cooler under the oil filter. The 84-85 GSL-SE and all future Rx7s returned to the front-mounted air-to-oil cooler style, which works much better.
Since your 84GS came with a "beehive" (as we call it), and your motor has the "T" for that, you should have no problems swapping engines once you get this one rebuilt.
Jon
The "T" is for the "beehive" oil cooler that sits under your oil filter. From 79-82 and the first *half* of the 83 model year, front-mounted oil coolers were used. then 83.5-85 S, GS and GSL models had the stupid water-to-oil cooler under the oil filter. The 84-85 GSL-SE and all future Rx7s returned to the front-mounted air-to-oil cooler style, which works much better.
Since your 84GS came with a "beehive" (as we call it), and your motor has the "T" for that, you should have no problems swapping engines once you get this one rebuilt.
Jon
07-05-07, 02:55 PM
#44
Aah....
Then it must be that vehicles constructed in '83 had the beehive, but ones constructed in 82, sold under the '83 model year at the dealership had the front mount.
Or something like that. I know that the model year your car shows on its registration isn't always the same as the year your car was constructed in. For example I can go out and buy an "08" car now, but it wasn't constructed in 08.
Or it could be that the fact that I've always heard "83.5" as a cut off point just stuck in my head and it didn't really happen like that. I haven't seen enough 83s to know.
Jon
Then it must be that vehicles constructed in '83 had the beehive, but ones constructed in 82, sold under the '83 model year at the dealership had the front mount.
Or something like that. I know that the model year your car shows on its registration isn't always the same as the year your car was constructed in. For example I can go out and buy an "08" car now, but it wasn't constructed in 08.
Or it could be that the fact that I've always heard "83.5" as a cut off point just stuck in my head and it didn't really happen like that. I haven't seen enough 83s to know.
Jon
07-05-07, 03:10 PM
#45
Thanks Joh thats some good info to ensure me the swap will go well. I have everything layed out correctly and going to check all specs tomarrow or saturday. As long as a few certain parts pass then I will be able to order the kit, port and put it back together really soon. Some reason though I cant find any 12A porting templates on atkins or mazdatrix am I an idiot or something? Besides this im hoping to get everything done real soon and my road test is in a week. (failed last time because of BS!) I just rememberd that I wanted to ask about insurance, I know this is going to be my first car and I will be 18 by then so it should be a lot right?. But I also heard of people paying dirt cheap for insurance. Roughly how much do you it will be for me? Thanks guy, Nick
Last edited by FelixIsGod29X; 07-05-07 at 03:12 PM. Reason: edit
07-05-07, 03:29 PM
#46
Also just thinking about the corner seal plugs, I wanted to replace them because I remember seeing some wear and would rather get the solid corner seals. On mazda trix they only had soild 3mm corner seal plugs for certain 70's year engine. Can I use those or do I need to find others?
07-05-07, 04:05 PM
#47
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[QUOTE=vipernicus42;7104149]Hold on, you have an actual physical copy of the FB FSM? Those are bloody rare...
Really? I have the original FSM I bought with my new FB back in '83.
Really? I have the original FSM I bought with my new FB back in '83.
07-05-07, 04:32 PM
#48
For porting templates, go here:
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda1.htm
Choose the category "Engines - Porting" and scroll down.
You want "Porting Template Streetable Intake" ($45)
and "Porting Template Streetable Exhaust 12a" ($28)
Then you'll want to check out their "Porting Tools" section... if you don't have carbide bits and an air-driven tool to mount them on, I'd suggest not doing the porting yourself. Especially true if you haven't done anything like it before and don't have junk housings to try stuff out on.
Solid corner seals are here:
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/cu...me.php?cat=601
If you want to use them, though there's a good thread in the engine rebuilding and porting section over on nopistons.com debating about whether solid seals are good or if it's better to stick with the stock ones.
Jon
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda1.htm
Choose the category "Engines - Porting" and scroll down.
You want "Porting Template Streetable Intake" ($45)
and "Porting Template Streetable Exhaust 12a" ($28)
Then you'll want to check out their "Porting Tools" section... if you don't have carbide bits and an air-driven tool to mount them on, I'd suggest not doing the porting yourself. Especially true if you haven't done anything like it before and don't have junk housings to try stuff out on.
Solid corner seals are here:
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/cu...me.php?cat=601
If you want to use them, though there's a good thread in the engine rebuilding and porting section over on nopistons.com debating about whether solid seals are good or if it's better to stick with the stock ones.
Jon
07-05-07, 08:00 PM
#49
Just what i been looking for, some reason i couldn't seem to find them but i seen them there a lot before. So all the intake porting temlates are the same for 12A and 13B? I have done porting before on yamaha banshee atv's, i was really good at it. Actually doing the exhaust porting on that those 2 stroke cylinders are done a lot like the housing on a rotary. I have a medium size die grinder and my dremel just broke on me before so i will get a new one. I have a few housing and plates i can practice on before i port the ones i will use. I read a lot earily on how to go about porting intake and exhaust, it shouldn't be to bad. Once i can do some real work I will try and take pics. - Thanks, Nick