which is better? i know they dont make koni reds anymore but i know where to aquire some brand new and for a very decent price.

they will be installed on an SA with a 13b. the car already have the SE suspension and i am installing the Respeed 5 fron brake upgrade soon. it currently has ST springs, ST front and adjustable rear sway bar and KYB shocks. the shocks are in good condition, i just wnt something else.

i plan on possibly running a 3-link, panhard bars, and GC and ISC spring adjusters. as far as the suspension goes, i may do an FC swap years down the road so i can have a wider selection and maybe get some true coil overs.

any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated. thanks

 

Where is ISC...website? I'm running the 1st gen. inserts and need new fronts. Those Bilsteins look pretty nice on the ozzy site...ISC sounds closer.

 

The Bilsteins are lightyears better than the other two options. I've run yellow Konis, Iluminas, and the Bilsteins on my ITS 2nd gen and it's not even a real comparison. The Bilsteins are much more consistent over a session versus the other two. We were about 3s a lap quicker out of the box with the Bilsteins versus the Konis.

 

C. Ludwig--

Which Bilsteins were you running on the 2nd gen-- the stock HD replacement R30-5014 or the Volkswagen P30-0032 in a custom housing, or something else....revalve? I am debating such a setup right now. I have a set of Koni Race struts available that need to be revalved, but don't feel like spending $600 and 9-11 weeks (realistically) to have them rebuilt, when Bilstein Motorsports is a mile from my house :-)

I have the "correct" Bilstein part numbers for the 1gen cars back at home (can't find the folder right now) and the correct bushing #'s that go in the rear (don't come with bushings for this part #).

EDIT-- 1gen Bilsteins are as follows--
Front P30-0104 (insert)
Rear B46-0347 (shock)

Bushing E4-GV1-Z044A05 or #408516 for rear shock.

 

ISC is in Winter Haven, Fl. just south of Orlando

Easiest contact is www.iscracing.net

Mike knows his stuff with RX7's, and his stuff works. Give him a shot..

 

all i hear are very good things about ISC. im looking forward to doing lots of business with them. so from bilsteins are that much better than koni reds? i read that the reds were supposed to be great, but i also havent seen much about the bilsteins. i dont think bilsteins are made for the 1st gen anymore. ill try to run the part numbers though.

i just did a very brief search for both part numbers. the front apparently go to a porshe 924 and 944. if i ordered these would they work on the first gen since they are just inserts? it doesnt really matter since these can be aquired from ISC. for the back, i couldnt find anything at all. if im not able to find bilsteins for the rear i guess my next best bet would either be koni reds or illuminas, correct? the problem with the reds is the only place i know where to get them i have to buy the whole set. i dont want to do that since bilstein is supposedly so much more superior.

 

the rear bilstiens ISC sells are upside down sprint car shocks! Bilsteins are the ****. i get all fuzzy thinking about them!

 

www.iscracing.net great people! just don't call them around a hurricane they were a little short with me for some reason... lol

 

Are the Bilstein front stock diameter or do they need the strut to be modified like the Advance or Koni Yellows.

 

Withe the spring rate of the ST springs any of those shocks can hanle the job., but if you decide to go to a higher spring rate (say 400 lb or more) then you need to look at the Bilstiens or revaluved konis.

 

^ actually how are the bilsteins compared to the Mazdacomp high spring rate tokicos (the ones that mazdacomp advertises for 300+lb springrates? and how to those compare to the bilsteins...? I'm looking for an autox car.

Alvin

 

Honestly I don't know what the part numbers are. Bilstein doesn't have a stock replacement for the 2nd gen. I got hooked up with Bilstein through a friend of mine who runs a USAC Silver Crown car. They're teamed up with Bilstein. The guy that heads their USAC program is an ex-IT racer and was all too happy to build a set of shocks for me. The inserts are assembled in the ISC strut mounts in the front. I've bought a bunch of stuff from ISC and have been happy with it all except these mounts. I will upgrade to the AWR pieces eventually. They're nothing more than a stock mount cut short with a threaded end welded to the top and an AWR cap holding the insert in. One of mine is not welded straight and the insert will not sit snuggly in the mount no matter how tight you get it.

FWIW, the fronts are supposed to be from a Porsche application and the shafts are around twice the size of the stockers. The rears I believe are a BMW application. But not totally sure on either. When the factory calls and says we're giving you shocks I just take them and don't ask questions. They really are the **** though. I love them.

 

Alvin,
There two sets of Tokicos adjustables that are sold for the first gen, one made as a general upgrade and the other most that folks use for racing is actually for a MR2. The MR2 shocks work fine for spring rates up to about 350, and at 400 you are pushing it. (Ask the guys at Mazdacomp or ask Jim Susko at G-force). Mazdacomp does have a Bilstien (from some other car) that works for springs rates that are a bit higher (about 400). If you go to the 450-500 range you have to pony up for a re-valved koni. The guys running 600 lb spring rates have two grand invested in the front shocks, and $2 in a mouth gaurd to save on chipped teeth.

 

Thanks Kill no Cone, I'm pretty happy with my 375 lb springs, so i guess i'll look into the mr2 tokicos or the bilsteins, I might be able to get a deal for the tokicos so I'll probably end up with a set of those...

Alvin

 

wow..seems that everyone on here is looking for shocks all of a sudden....I've got some tokico illuminas for an FC that I bought a few months ago for my racecar and never installed. Still in box if anyone wants them shoot me a PM

 

I have the ISC Racing setup in my 89TII for time trial racing. A stock front strut is modified by welding a sleeve and collar to accept the P30 insert from Bilstein. ISC racing uses a spring perch which appears to be some generic spring perch/coilover threaded collar that you can buy from any stock car supplier. The spring perch/collar is then supported by the mazda OEM stock shock's collar which is where it is bolted to the knuckle.

The upper spring perch I tossed in favor of the ground control camber castor kit one. ISC racing will say that they don't like the needle bearing that ground control uses for their camber plates. But after two races I couldn't stand the squeeking noise coming from the aluminum upper spring perch directly rubbing on the painted metal of the ground control camber plates. So I chose to install the needler bearing and the ground control upper spring perch.

Also the shaft size for the threaded portion of hte P30 shock is skinnier than the mazda oem shaft or the koni/kyb which are OEM replacements. ISC racing had to supply a small collar/spacer so that I could use ground control camber plates with it.

The setup works well on the track. They are indeed consistent. But then again I have nothing to comapre to. The lack of adjustment is a good and bad thing. The good is that I don't have to guess at the settings since I don't have enough experience to setup shcoks by the seat of my pants and I can't afford the latest PI data acq system.

I find the system needing a bit more rebound dampening though as the car seems to want to oscillate a bit after it gets distrubed on a straightaway. I don't notice it in the corners though.

I run 400 lbs-in in the front and 250 lbs-in in the rear. Stock front sway bar and no rear sway bar.

Camber is -1.1 F both sides and -1.4 R
Castor is at 5.5 degrees
1/16 toe in and toe out for rear and front respectively.

I did notice with this setup. On a 225/50/16 Toyo RA1 with the higher point on the highest point of the fender arc to the ground of 25" I can not get more than -1.1 degree camber. I maxed out the camber plates in favor of getting camber instead of castor and could only manage -1.1. I'm not sure why.


---edit----

the mazdaspeed bilsteins come from AWR racing. Anthony revalves his bilsteins for the spring rates. I think that is similar to what C.Ludwig has. I think AWR quality may be a bit higher than ISC racing. I was a bit disappointed in the workmanship. SInce I live in Canada, i had ISC racing supply me the shock bodies and all. They failied to properly clean all the rust off the old shock and just hit it with blue spray paint which oversprayed onto the shaft and other places. Since then the rust expanded and the cheap blue spray bomb painted started to peel off. Then there is this thumb print that dired into the paint. One of the inserts was not installed properly. It looks like when they welded the modification in it wasn't perfectly straight (axially), they installed the insert in and tightened down the threaded collar which holdes the insert into the shock body. They just reefed on the collar as hard as they could to jam the insert in. The collar isn't even fully seated, The threads got damaged too when they reefed on it so I'm stuck.

Obviously I don't expect build quality of the TEIN RA standards but I do expect things to be done right. I emailed them back when I first got it and they said everything worked and looked good when it left hte shop. I wasn't going to win and I was already late for the racing season. I have all the part numbers, so when my setup wears out I'll just redo it all myself.

One last note: What do you do with the brake lines? Since the spring perch and collar rests against the mounting flange ISC racing had to grind off the bracket that holds the brake lines. I ended up taping the brake line with some silicone rubber tape (thick). Put a C clamp around the black threaded collar, and two zip ties to hold the brake line against the black metal collar/perch (see pic below)

 

These aren't the right ones are they? http://www.climaxsuspension.com.au/#

or these? Climax Suspension - Quality Suspension for 4WD and Car Owners - Home Page

Its an '85, running 275/150lb springs and tokico illuminas. Im happy with the springs, but the shocks are crap. they're like 90% compression 3%rebound and 7% sucks ****.
They seem to be adjustable between bouncing around, and smacking your head into the roof and then bouncing around, and the three settings in between.
Its really affecting the drivability during spirited driving. Skipping around on anything but smooth road.

 

Never mind, just played with the settings on the tokicos again. Was on 3f and 2r, went for a few laps around the neighbourhood, got progressively better with the harder settings, ended up with 5/5 and its nice and poised, may back the rear down to 4.