85 GSL-SE dies in turns when throttle applied
11-04-19, 02:40 PM
#26
No longer New
Thread Starter
I'm back!
Long Duck....Thank You! I have done all that you have suggested. The problem remains, just not as bad now. If throttle position does NOT change during corning, it does just fine. Wires from Trailing coil on may car come from a blue connector, One is yellow with a green stripe, the other is black (and thicker). Engine NEVER coughs or sputters at idle no matter how I move the looms. Thanks anyway!
Long Duck....Thank You! I have done all that you have suggested. The problem remains, just not as bad now. If throttle position does NOT change during corning, it does just fine. Wires from Trailing coil on may car come from a blue connector, One is yellow with a green stripe, the other is black (and thicker). Engine NEVER coughs or sputters at idle no matter how I move the looms. Thanks anyway!
11-05-19, 12:17 PM
#27
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Man, this problem is going on a YEAR!
I read this last night, and re-read the whole thing just now to get back up to speed. I need to clarify the nature of the problem - please correct me if I've misunderstood:
FAILURE MODE: Only during cornering - at ANY speed - if you turn the steering wheel AND increase or decrease throttle - the engine DIES, and the car comes to a stop. If you center the steering wheel, it will restart and run just fine, until you have to turn the steering wheel again. Correct?
Here's a crazy thought, but it rules out the Air Flow Meter once and for all;
1) Remove the Air Box with Air Filter - you can run it without a filter ONLY as long as it takes to test this...
2) Turn the Air Flow Meter on it's side, so it sits vertical (*doesn't matter which way, you're just changing the orientation from Left / Right swings)
3) Drive the car, turning corners and accelerating to see if it still dies
4) If problem is resolved - the AFM has an internal short causing either the Fuel Pump to shut off OR the AFM to read incorrectly to the ECU when the Air Door position changes during cornering.
5) If the problem continues - it's something else. We'll get to that in a minute.
Apart from the AFM, you're going to have to start digging deeper into your wiring harness to see if something is shorting or grounding that shouldn't be - and I'm guessing it's either hanging freely to swing during cornering, or is being stretched or grounded to the Steering Column when you turn. Things to look at (*after above test proves AFM is working fine);
A - Possibility) Fuel Pump & harness & mount - the FP is hung on rubber donuts on a steel plate under the car and those donuts can swell over time (*usually from oil leaks at the FMOC), allowing the mount plate to swing a bit. This could be shorting your Fuel Pump leads (2-wire, with plastic connector inside the driver's side storage bin) when you add cornering forces. Check the mounting plate to see if it's secure or swinging strangely, also check the wires where they exit the body of the car through the rubber seal, and where the wires enter the pump and look for frayed wires, scorch marks, etc. ***THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS*** You don't want any sparking around the fuel system, so be thorough in your study.
B - Less Likely) Engine Control Unit is located under a steel plate under the carpet at the passenger side footwell. Pull the carpet back and you'll see the plate with 4x 12mm nuts holding it down. The ECU is hiding underneath. Check the condition of the various plugs. You're looking for something obvious here; a plug pulled partially out of the ECU, burned wiring, frayed wires, a mouse living down there that doesn't like lateral acceleration... Also, there's an Atmospheric Pressure sensor (black plastic oblong shaped thing) under there, and the Fuel Pump Relay which is strangely marked "Circuit Opening Relay" - this implies that it's designed to pass current to the Fuel Pump when it's supposed to, and shuts it off when it needs to (i.e., 'opening' the circuit), like in a crash. Check the connectors on each of these, as well as the wiring leading to them. DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING - just inspect. You could have a passenger ride in the car with you with a finger on the Fuel Pump Relay ("Circuit Opening Relay") and then turn the car and accelerate. If the FPR is bad, they'll feel a 'click' as the Relay disconnects power to the Fuel Pump.
C - Remote Possibility) - Short in the wiring harness in the engine bay (Fuel Injector connectors, but BOTH?) or under the dash. You should be able to replicate cornering forces by moving the various wiring harnesses around simulating Left & Right by hand, revving with the car stationary. Again, this is a remote possibility.
To be honest, I woke up this morning at 3:30a thinking about this problem, so I really want you to get it solved! Take your time. Everything you're doing is narrowing down the problem. report back (*before a year passes, preferably...),
I read this last night, and re-read the whole thing just now to get back up to speed. I need to clarify the nature of the problem - please correct me if I've misunderstood:
FAILURE MODE: Only during cornering - at ANY speed - if you turn the steering wheel AND increase or decrease throttle - the engine DIES, and the car comes to a stop. If you center the steering wheel, it will restart and run just fine, until you have to turn the steering wheel again. Correct?
Here's a crazy thought, but it rules out the Air Flow Meter once and for all;
1) Remove the Air Box with Air Filter - you can run it without a filter ONLY as long as it takes to test this...
2) Turn the Air Flow Meter on it's side, so it sits vertical (*doesn't matter which way, you're just changing the orientation from Left / Right swings)
3) Drive the car, turning corners and accelerating to see if it still dies
4) If problem is resolved - the AFM has an internal short causing either the Fuel Pump to shut off OR the AFM to read incorrectly to the ECU when the Air Door position changes during cornering.
5) If the problem continues - it's something else. We'll get to that in a minute.
Apart from the AFM, you're going to have to start digging deeper into your wiring harness to see if something is shorting or grounding that shouldn't be - and I'm guessing it's either hanging freely to swing during cornering, or is being stretched or grounded to the Steering Column when you turn. Things to look at (*after above test proves AFM is working fine);
A - Possibility) Fuel Pump & harness & mount - the FP is hung on rubber donuts on a steel plate under the car and those donuts can swell over time (*usually from oil leaks at the FMOC), allowing the mount plate to swing a bit. This could be shorting your Fuel Pump leads (2-wire, with plastic connector inside the driver's side storage bin) when you add cornering forces. Check the mounting plate to see if it's secure or swinging strangely, also check the wires where they exit the body of the car through the rubber seal, and where the wires enter the pump and look for frayed wires, scorch marks, etc. ***THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS*** You don't want any sparking around the fuel system, so be thorough in your study.
B - Less Likely) Engine Control Unit is located under a steel plate under the carpet at the passenger side footwell. Pull the carpet back and you'll see the plate with 4x 12mm nuts holding it down. The ECU is hiding underneath. Check the condition of the various plugs. You're looking for something obvious here; a plug pulled partially out of the ECU, burned wiring, frayed wires, a mouse living down there that doesn't like lateral acceleration... Also, there's an Atmospheric Pressure sensor (black plastic oblong shaped thing) under there, and the Fuel Pump Relay which is strangely marked "Circuit Opening Relay" - this implies that it's designed to pass current to the Fuel Pump when it's supposed to, and shuts it off when it needs to (i.e., 'opening' the circuit), like in a crash. Check the connectors on each of these, as well as the wiring leading to them. DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING - just inspect. You could have a passenger ride in the car with you with a finger on the Fuel Pump Relay ("Circuit Opening Relay") and then turn the car and accelerate. If the FPR is bad, they'll feel a 'click' as the Relay disconnects power to the Fuel Pump.
C - Remote Possibility) - Short in the wiring harness in the engine bay (Fuel Injector connectors, but BOTH?) or under the dash. You should be able to replicate cornering forces by moving the various wiring harnesses around simulating Left & Right by hand, revving with the car stationary. Again, this is a remote possibility.
To be honest, I woke up this morning at 3:30a thinking about this problem, so I really want you to get it solved! Take your time. Everything you're doing is narrowing down the problem. report back (*before a year passes, preferably...),
The following users liked this post:
85ourx7 (12-17-19)
12-09-19, 07:48 PM
#28
Full Member
Man, this problem is going on a YEAR!
I read this last night, and re-read the whole thing just now to get back up to speed. I need to clarify the nature of the problem - please correct me if I've misunderstood:
FAILURE MODE: Only during cornering - at ANY speed - if you turn the steering wheel AND increase or decrease throttle - the engine DIES, and the car comes to a stop. If you center the steering wheel, it will restart and run just fine, until you have to turn the steering wheel again. Correct?
Here's a crazy thought, but it rules out the Air Flow Meter once and for all;
1) Remove the Air Box with Air Filter - you can run it without a filter ONLY as long as it takes to test this...
2) Turn the Air Flow Meter on it's side, so it sits vertical (*doesn't matter which way, you're just changing the orientation from Left / Right swings)
3) Drive the car, turning corners and accelerating to see if it still dies
4) If problem is resolved - the AFM has an internal short causing either the Fuel Pump to shut off OR the AFM to read incorrectly to the ECU when the Air Door position changes during cornering.
5) If the problem continues - it's something else. We'll get to that in a minute.
Apart from the AFM, you're going to have to start digging deeper into your wiring harness to see if something is shorting or grounding that shouldn't be - and I'm guessing it's either hanging freely to swing during cornering, or is being stretched or grounded to the Steering Column when you turn. Things to look at (*after above test proves AFM is working fine);
A - Possibility) Fuel Pump & harness & mount - the FP is hung on rubber donuts on a steel plate under the car and those donuts can swell over time (*usually from oil leaks at the FMOC), allowing the mount plate to swing a bit. This could be shorting your Fuel Pump leads (2-wire, with plastic connector inside the driver's side storage bin) when you add cornering forces. Check the mounting plate to see if it's secure or swinging strangely, also check the wires where they exit the body of the car through the rubber seal, and where the wires enter the pump and look for frayed wires, scorch marks, etc. ***THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS*** You don't want any sparking around the fuel system, so be thorough in your study.
B - Less Likely) Engine Control Unit is located under a steel plate under the carpet at the passenger side footwell. Pull the carpet back and you'll see the plate with 4x 12mm nuts holding it down. The ECU is hiding underneath. Check the condition of the various plugs. You're looking for something obvious here; a plug pulled partially out of the ECU, burned wiring, frayed wires, a mouse living down there that doesn't like lateral acceleration... Also, there's an Atmospheric Pressure sensor (black plastic oblong shaped thing) under there, and the Fuel Pump Relay which is strangely marked "Circuit Opening Relay" - this implies that it's designed to pass current to the Fuel Pump when it's supposed to, and shuts it off when it needs to (i.e., 'opening' the circuit), like in a crash. Check the connectors on each of these, as well as the wiring leading to them. DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING - just inspect. You could have a passenger ride in the car with you with a finger on the Fuel Pump Relay ("Circuit Opening Relay") and then turn the car and accelerate. If the FPR is bad, they'll feel a 'click' as the Relay disconnects power to the Fuel Pump.
C - Remote Possibility) - Short in the wiring harness in the engine bay (Fuel Injector connectors, but BOTH?) or under the dash. You should be able to replicate cornering forces by moving the various wiring harnesses around simulating Left & Right by hand, revving with the car stationary. Again, this is a remote possibility.
To be honest, I woke up this morning at 3:30a thinking about this problem, so I really want you to get it solved! Take your time. Everything you're doing is narrowing down the problem. report back (*before a year passes, preferably...),
I read this last night, and re-read the whole thing just now to get back up to speed. I need to clarify the nature of the problem - please correct me if I've misunderstood:
FAILURE MODE: Only during cornering - at ANY speed - if you turn the steering wheel AND increase or decrease throttle - the engine DIES, and the car comes to a stop. If you center the steering wheel, it will restart and run just fine, until you have to turn the steering wheel again. Correct?
Here's a crazy thought, but it rules out the Air Flow Meter once and for all;
1) Remove the Air Box with Air Filter - you can run it without a filter ONLY as long as it takes to test this...
2) Turn the Air Flow Meter on it's side, so it sits vertical (*doesn't matter which way, you're just changing the orientation from Left / Right swings)
3) Drive the car, turning corners and accelerating to see if it still dies
4) If problem is resolved - the AFM has an internal short causing either the Fuel Pump to shut off OR the AFM to read incorrectly to the ECU when the Air Door position changes during cornering.
5) If the problem continues - it's something else. We'll get to that in a minute.
Apart from the AFM, you're going to have to start digging deeper into your wiring harness to see if something is shorting or grounding that shouldn't be - and I'm guessing it's either hanging freely to swing during cornering, or is being stretched or grounded to the Steering Column when you turn. Things to look at (*after above test proves AFM is working fine);
A - Possibility) Fuel Pump & harness & mount - the FP is hung on rubber donuts on a steel plate under the car and those donuts can swell over time (*usually from oil leaks at the FMOC), allowing the mount plate to swing a bit. This could be shorting your Fuel Pump leads (2-wire, with plastic connector inside the driver's side storage bin) when you add cornering forces. Check the mounting plate to see if it's secure or swinging strangely, also check the wires where they exit the body of the car through the rubber seal, and where the wires enter the pump and look for frayed wires, scorch marks, etc. ***THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS*** You don't want any sparking around the fuel system, so be thorough in your study.
B - Less Likely) Engine Control Unit is located under a steel plate under the carpet at the passenger side footwell. Pull the carpet back and you'll see the plate with 4x 12mm nuts holding it down. The ECU is hiding underneath. Check the condition of the various plugs. You're looking for something obvious here; a plug pulled partially out of the ECU, burned wiring, frayed wires, a mouse living down there that doesn't like lateral acceleration... Also, there's an Atmospheric Pressure sensor (black plastic oblong shaped thing) under there, and the Fuel Pump Relay which is strangely marked "Circuit Opening Relay" - this implies that it's designed to pass current to the Fuel Pump when it's supposed to, and shuts it off when it needs to (i.e., 'opening' the circuit), like in a crash. Check the connectors on each of these, as well as the wiring leading to them. DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING - just inspect. You could have a passenger ride in the car with you with a finger on the Fuel Pump Relay ("Circuit Opening Relay") and then turn the car and accelerate. If the FPR is bad, they'll feel a 'click' as the Relay disconnects power to the Fuel Pump.
C - Remote Possibility) - Short in the wiring harness in the engine bay (Fuel Injector connectors, but BOTH?) or under the dash. You should be able to replicate cornering forces by moving the various wiring harnesses around simulating Left & Right by hand, revving with the car stationary. Again, this is a remote possibility.
To be honest, I woke up this morning at 3:30a thinking about this problem, so I really want you to get it solved! Take your time. Everything you're doing is narrowing down the problem. report back (*before a year passes, preferably...),
The following users liked this post:
85ourx7 (12-17-19)
12-13-19, 02:26 AM
#29
Senior Member
I feel your pain!
Perhaps time to sell the vehicle to me? lol, j/k
My dd had a similar but not similar problem that turned out to be related to the steering components. Doubt it's the problem here but maybe worth making sure nothing is getting pinched or crushed during turns.
As I type this I wonder if you've checked the fuel pump itself? Maybe the sending unit is shorting the pump due to too much play during cornering. Just throwing out ideas. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.
Good luck with finding the culprit. This would surely drive me nuts!
Perhaps time to sell the vehicle to me? lol, j/k
My dd had a similar but not similar problem that turned out to be related to the steering components. Doubt it's the problem here but maybe worth making sure nothing is getting pinched or crushed during turns.
As I type this I wonder if you've checked the fuel pump itself? Maybe the sending unit is shorting the pump due to too much play during cornering. Just throwing out ideas. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.
Good luck with finding the culprit. This would surely drive me nuts!
12-13-19, 08:38 AM
#30
ancient wizard...
I feel your pain!
Perhaps time to sell the vehicle to me? lol, j/k
My dd had a similar but not similar problem that turned out to be related to the steering components. Doubt it's the problem here but maybe worth making sure nothing is getting pinched or crushed during turns.
As I type this I wonder if you've checked the fuel pump itself? Maybe the sending unit is shorting the pump due to too much play during cornering. Just throwing out ideas. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.
Good luck with finding the culprit. This would surely drive me nuts!
Perhaps time to sell the vehicle to me? lol, j/k
My dd had a similar but not similar problem that turned out to be related to the steering components. Doubt it's the problem here but maybe worth making sure nothing is getting pinched or crushed during turns.
As I type this I wonder if you've checked the fuel pump itself? Maybe the sending unit is shorting the pump due to too much play during cornering. Just throwing out ideas. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.
Good luck with finding the culprit. This would surely drive me nuts!
The following users liked this post:
85ourx7 (12-17-19)
12-17-19, 08:07 PM
#31
No longer New
Thread Starter
Hi Guys,
Update. I jumped the terminals in the connecter with the rubber boot near the TPS adjustment connector. Same behavior. It only bogs/dies when I turn the wheel to the LEFT (even slightly)....not to the right. And it ONLY occurs when I apply more throttle during the turn (same result when cruise control applies throttle even with the wheel turned slightly to the left, like a slow and easy lane change). As long as I don't change throttle position, it runs just fine. Repeated test while making right turns, and it's just fine..I can mash the gas all I want and it just goes. I've poked my head up under the dash. The harness isn't touching anything. It still looks brand new under there.
Bear in mind that it started this crap IMMEDIATELY after I replaced, plugs, wires, cap, rotor and ignition coils. Any reasonable offers will be entertained! LOL! Getting tired of this. My next step is to order a new cap and rotor, then swap them out one at a time.
Update. I jumped the terminals in the connecter with the rubber boot near the TPS adjustment connector. Same behavior. It only bogs/dies when I turn the wheel to the LEFT (even slightly)....not to the right. And it ONLY occurs when I apply more throttle during the turn (same result when cruise control applies throttle even with the wheel turned slightly to the left, like a slow and easy lane change). As long as I don't change throttle position, it runs just fine. Repeated test while making right turns, and it's just fine..I can mash the gas all I want and it just goes. I've poked my head up under the dash. The harness isn't touching anything. It still looks brand new under there.
Bear in mind that it started this crap IMMEDIATELY after I replaced, plugs, wires, cap, rotor and ignition coils. Any reasonable offers will be entertained! LOL! Getting tired of this. My next step is to order a new cap and rotor, then swap them out one at a time.
12-18-19, 01:29 AM
#32
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
First off - did you do all the troubleshooting steps I suggested in the prior posts?
This is admittedly a long shot - but you're running out of options; remove the cover for the steering wheel and take a good look at the wire for the horn. If it's grounding somewhere when you turn the steering wheel, it could be causing enough of a short to affect something else. Does your horn work correctly?
Also, pulling at straws here - check any wiring harness which is near the throttle cable, and also at the back of the alternator where the Fuel Injector harness goes under the Upper Intake Manifold. Something is pulling on a wiring harness at just the right moment to cause this problem. The fact that it's reproducible is in your favor to locate it.
Have someone sit in the car and wiggle the steering wheel to the left while you're looking in the engine bay and watching for anything that touches anything else, or a wiring harness that moves.
This is admittedly a long shot - but you're running out of options; remove the cover for the steering wheel and take a good look at the wire for the horn. If it's grounding somewhere when you turn the steering wheel, it could be causing enough of a short to affect something else. Does your horn work correctly?
Also, pulling at straws here - check any wiring harness which is near the throttle cable, and also at the back of the alternator where the Fuel Injector harness goes under the Upper Intake Manifold. Something is pulling on a wiring harness at just the right moment to cause this problem. The fact that it's reproducible is in your favor to locate it.
Have someone sit in the car and wiggle the steering wheel to the left while you're looking in the engine bay and watching for anything that touches anything else, or a wiring harness that moves.
03-21-21, 10:29 PM
#33
No longer New
Thread Starter
It's official...I am an idiot! LOL! Car sat unloved for a long time. Driven occasionally. Stalling on left turns. I changed oil in it recently, replaced O-rings under filter perch. Then...out of the blue, I noticed that both plug wire boots from the "NEW" coils were moist. They were OEM and I tested them multiple times....while they were out of the car and upright. Lesson learned..always shake your coils. New doesn't mean "good", even if it's OEM. I got 2 new ones from NAPA. Problem solved. As it turns out, then coils weren't completely filled and since they are installed horizontally, whenever I turned to the left, the oil would flow to the passenger side due to inertia, exposing the bottom, and causing them to cease firing until turn was complete! I HAVE A NEW CAR AGAIN! New struts, springs, brake master, clutch slave and master, rebuilt injectors (pintle caps and O-rings, fuel lines, pulsation damper(for a 2001 camry V6), and fuel pressure regulator.. I had forgotten what a terror this car can be. I've fallen in love all over again. But I'm still going to sell it. Any takers? PM me. THANK YOU to Long duck and all the others.. I now now that all the critical stuff is perfect. Car runs like a top.
The following users liked this post:
Frogman (03-28-21)
03-29-21, 04:39 PM
#35
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
I have never - in 20 years on this forum, and driving these cars for 40 years - never... heard of that specific problem with a leaking coil causing that symptom, but it makes sense.
You win the award for perseverance, screwing with it for 4 years until you figured it out. Nice work!
You win the award for perseverance, screwing with it for 4 years until you figured it out. Nice work!
04-11-21, 04:01 PM
#36
No longer New
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input and help. I KNEW it was ignition. No coughing or sputtering at all. INSTANT DEATH in a left turn. Car is now for sale. Let me know your thoughts!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
XLR8
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
16
03-28-07 11:59 AM
brownmound
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
6
01-25-06 04:05 PM