680whp(12A) It's possible "proof"
11-12-02, 11:19 PM
#51
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If the person posting the dyno figures is a reliable source and the claims themselves are believable, then yes I would believe them.
Someone of dubious background comes on and claims the highest HP 12A turbo on the planet, without NOS, then there is going to be a skeptecism.
How do you know he isn't using lots of NOS?
*Edited by Acuspeed*
Someone of dubious background comes on and claims the highest HP 12A turbo on the planet, without NOS, then there is going to be a skeptecism.
How do you know he isn't using lots of NOS?
*Edited by Acuspeed*
11-12-02, 11:24 PM
#52
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Again man, the onus is on the guy posting or claiming, he has provided a dyno sheet, another guy has "seen" it, then there is another guy on a site who has run a time, does not list using NOS and you cannot believe it.
I does sound unbelievable, but good on them for making that power and running that number (in the other guys case).
If they can do it good on them, they have given you the evidence. If they are lying then let it be on their head ?
I does sound unbelievable, but good on them for making that power and running that number (in the other guys case).
If they can do it good on them, they have given you the evidence. If they are lying then let it be on their head ?
11-12-02, 11:31 PM
#53
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I just gotta put in my $.02,
I've read a lot of Rice Racings posts.... and he is definately very knoweldgeable.
I've seen some of 680rwhp12a 's cars and they look like something I want!
As for who wants to believe who has what horse power, what track time, blah, blah, blah.... Who really gives a **** if your not gonna believe it cause you were'nt there.... then there is no need to try and disprove everything you disagree with.
After all this whole forum is for the exchange of ideas... even if you don't like them, don't believe them, or don't wanna believe them!
Okey dokey! ;-)
*Mildly edited by Acuspeed*
I've read a lot of Rice Racings posts.... and he is definately very knoweldgeable.
I've seen some of 680rwhp12a 's cars and they look like something I want!
As for who wants to believe who has what horse power, what track time, blah, blah, blah.... Who really gives a **** if your not gonna believe it cause you were'nt there.... then there is no need to try and disprove everything you disagree with.
After all this whole forum is for the exchange of ideas... even if you don't like them, don't believe them, or don't wanna believe them!
Okey dokey! ;-)
*Mildly edited by Acuspeed*
11-13-02, 12:42 AM
#54
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Originally posted by 10sec rx7
But where are all these engines you talk about?? the only one most people in australia know about is your own one, no one knows of any of your customers.
I have no doubt about the people knowing more, i know lots of people that have built there own engines but that dosent mean they know everything about engines.
But where are all these engines you talk about?? the only one most people in australia know about is your own one, no one knows of any of your customers.
I have no doubt about the people knowing more, i know lots of people that have built there own engines but that dosent mean they know everything about engines.
As for backing up claims... in the time I've been on this forum I've never seen RICE make a claim without providing some sort of proof in the form of data logs, dyno charts, engineering papers etc.
BTW, what are your credentials and experience?
*edited by Acuspeed*
11-13-02, 01:05 AM
#55
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
revhed, you may want to tone down your support, I dont want to see people banned or getting warnings over things like this.
if people have problems then save them for your PM or contact them to sort it out.
I can live with it, just dont get yourself in trouble
if people have problems then save them for your PM or contact them to sort it out.
I can live with it, just dont get yourself in trouble
11-13-02, 01:22 AM
#56
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Whilst I'm not saying I 100% believe these power claims I can't see why it isn't possible to get that much power from a 12a.
We would all believe that sort of power from a 13b right?
Well the displacement of a 13b is only 0.1 of a litre more or possibly 0.2 of a litre more in piston terms...
We would all believe that sort of power from a 13b right?
Well the displacement of a 13b is only 0.1 of a litre more or possibly 0.2 of a litre more in piston terms...
11-13-02, 01:25 AM
#57
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hmm ive been sittin here reading these and i have no where near the knowledge if these guys.....but i got mad respect for all you AUS guys..but ya need to stop this pissin contest ya got goin on and go look at your cars .... and realize that you prolly have worse things to **** and moan aboot
and on a side note... ive seen alot of pics on ajc's car and was wondering if you other AUS guys had some of your rides (10 sec, rice)
peace be wit yall
and on a side note... ive seen alot of pics on ajc's car and was wondering if you other AUS guys had some of your rides (10 sec, rice)
peace be wit yall
11-13-02, 01:29 AM
#58
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I wonder how many people have taken the effort to contact 680rwhp12a or maybe tried to find out more info from the other powerfull 12A runner ?
I know I was intrigued, so I tried to get in touch with them, without making prior judgment about them, I mean if you were realy interested in knowing more then this would be the best action wouldn't it?
For people to say they do not care what the theory is simply shows their ignorance in wanting to hear what people have to say, I am sure if you approach these guys with an open mind they will be more than welcome to share their experiences with you. If you show that you simply think it is BS without taking the effort to check it out then well you cannot blaim them for thinking your are only interested in ridiculing them.
I mean I am not going to stop you from saying my ability to calculate out the numbers behind power outputs is just theory, that is your perogative, I will just remind you that people much smarter than my self operate in this way to at least do a preliminary assesment of wether something being claimed is possible or not. As I said you can only take what someone is telling you for what it is, if the guys has gone to the effort of doing a dyno run, posted it, uses it in his name, or has run some good numbers + posted his set up then he is either trying to pull a very elaborate scam with very little regard for the repercussions or he just might be telling the truth heaven forbid !
Either way there will be always somebody who does not believe somebody else, either through their own inability to accept their limitations, ot they feel threatened, or they simply want to prove that it cannot be done by anybody else because they have not done it, I am sure there are MANY other reasons for peoples views on certain subjects.
At the end of the day the guy has fronted up the evidence, either you can go to the effort of proving him wrong or simply accepting it. At the end of the day for some people to believe they have to have been there at least and pre scrutinered the car in question before they will accept anything as fact regardless of how much evidence they are presented with.
I know I was intrigued, so I tried to get in touch with them, without making prior judgment about them, I mean if you were realy interested in knowing more then this would be the best action wouldn't it?
For people to say they do not care what the theory is simply shows their ignorance in wanting to hear what people have to say, I am sure if you approach these guys with an open mind they will be more than welcome to share their experiences with you. If you show that you simply think it is BS without taking the effort to check it out then well you cannot blaim them for thinking your are only interested in ridiculing them.
I mean I am not going to stop you from saying my ability to calculate out the numbers behind power outputs is just theory, that is your perogative, I will just remind you that people much smarter than my self operate in this way to at least do a preliminary assesment of wether something being claimed is possible or not. As I said you can only take what someone is telling you for what it is, if the guys has gone to the effort of doing a dyno run, posted it, uses it in his name, or has run some good numbers + posted his set up then he is either trying to pull a very elaborate scam with very little regard for the repercussions or he just might be telling the truth heaven forbid !
Either way there will be always somebody who does not believe somebody else, either through their own inability to accept their limitations, ot they feel threatened, or they simply want to prove that it cannot be done by anybody else because they have not done it, I am sure there are MANY other reasons for peoples views on certain subjects.
At the end of the day the guy has fronted up the evidence, either you can go to the effort of proving him wrong or simply accepting it. At the end of the day for some people to believe they have to have been there at least and pre scrutinered the car in question before they will accept anything as fact regardless of how much evidence they are presented with.
11-13-02, 01:42 AM
#60
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by shinjuku
Whilst I'm not saying I 100% believe these power claims I can't see why it isn't possible to get that much power from a 12a.
We would all believe that sort of power from a 13b right?
Well the displacement of a 13b is only 0.1 of a litre more or possibly 0.2 of a litre more in piston terms...
Whilst I'm not saying I 100% believe these power claims I can't see why it isn't possible to get that much power from a 12a.
We would all believe that sort of power from a 13b right?
Well the displacement of a 13b is only 0.1 of a litre more or possibly 0.2 of a litre more in piston terms...
SCOOT made 710rwhp @ 7410 rpm with 28psi boost on mild partial PP.
This guy claims 680RWHP @ 8900rpm from a Bridge port 12A with 30psi boost.
I know there are lots of variables but for the benifit of not complicating things it is pretty simple math to figure out that it is not imposible to achieve this power without NOS, especially if he is using the higher compression rotors of the 12A N/A engine, even despite giving away a bit of displacement, he more than makes up for it in peak speed @ max power.
It can be done, you may not agree with the numbers but that is what the facts are, it is not impossible, just takes a bit of ***** to try something different, either that or simply tuning what you got to the n'th degree.
11-13-02, 01:44 AM
#62
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by AJC13B
My ***** is 12 inches long. Folded in half.
Who's next?
My ***** is 12 inches long. Folded in half.
Who's next?
Last edited by RICE RACING; 11-13-02 at 01:54 AM.
11-13-02, 11:56 AM
#63
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Originally posted by AJC13B
My ***** is 12 inches long. Folded in half.
Who's next?
My ***** is 12 inches long. Folded in half.
Who's next?
11-13-02, 01:47 PM
#64
r71's daddy
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Simple way to prove/disprove. Here is his location:
9344 OSO Street,Unit J
Chatsworth, California 91311
Several of the california guys should go over there and visit him. Go to the dyno and the track with him. Post up the numbers afterwards. That will put it to rest.
9344 OSO Street,Unit J
Chatsworth, California 91311
Several of the california guys should go over there and visit him. Go to the dyno and the track with him. Post up the numbers afterwards. That will put it to rest.
11-13-02, 02:25 PM
#65
r71's daddy
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BTW - did anyone actually READ his dyno sheet? 0 feet? 67.5*F? 29.92 barometer? Sure looks like a "corrected" dyno sheet to me ..... which means that he didn't really put down a "true" 681.7rwhp/422.8rwtq ..... on a base tuned Haltech. Still is pretty impressive numbers though, uncorrected.
"Altitude, barometric pressure and temperature. These factors are NOT the same for atmo and turbo engines. Using atmo factors inflates the true, corrected HP figures on a turbo engine. In fact, look at the correction factor applied on your dyno sheets and see if they make sense. Many shady dyno operators simply enter a phantom correction factor to make the customer happy. This is a case where the dyno sheet DOES lie." - http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm
More: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/cf.htm
You can figure correction factors (roughly) here:
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
"Altitude, barometric pressure and temperature. These factors are NOT the same for atmo and turbo engines. Using atmo factors inflates the true, corrected HP figures on a turbo engine. In fact, look at the correction factor applied on your dyno sheets and see if they make sense. Many shady dyno operators simply enter a phantom correction factor to make the customer happy. This is a case where the dyno sheet DOES lie." - http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm
More: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/cf.htm
You can figure correction factors (roughly) here:
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
Last edited by David88vert; 11-13-02 at 02:53 PM.
11-13-02, 03:21 PM
#66
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Ok, after looking closer at the dyno sheet, it looks like it was dated Sept 30, 2002. Is that correct? If it is, then here is that days data: http://www.wunderground.com/history/...lyHistory.html
If you run that through the relative hp calculator, then you get this:
Relative Horsepower 102.3 %
Air Density 1.1997 kg/m3
Relative Air Density 97.9 %
Density Altitude 728 feet
Virtual Temperature 70.1 deg F
Actual Air Pressure 29.93 inches Hg
Actual Vapor Pressure 0.383 inches Hg
Relative Humidity 56.5 %
Dyno Correction Factor 0.977
This would say that his real power on that given day at 4pm was 666.02rwhp.
I'm suprised that no one had already run this ......
If you run that through the relative hp calculator, then you get this:
Relative Horsepower 102.3 %
Air Density 1.1997 kg/m3
Relative Air Density 97.9 %
Density Altitude 728 feet
Virtual Temperature 70.1 deg F
Actual Air Pressure 29.93 inches Hg
Actual Vapor Pressure 0.383 inches Hg
Relative Humidity 56.5 %
Dyno Correction Factor 0.977
This would say that his real power on that given day at 4pm was 666.02rwhp.
I'm suprised that no one had already run this ......
11-13-02, 04:12 PM
#67
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Alrighty ... I've decided to yield the editing sword on this one. I'm cutting out personal attacks/flames and leaving what I feel is good to stay, just to try and get this back on track here...
11-13-02, 05:27 PM
#71
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Just for the record, Delirium runs on Turbo and gasoline only. No alcohol, and definitely no NOS. And it only makes 550 hp at the wheels. Read this thread for more info.
Cheers
Cheers
Last edited by X4dLuvOfSpeedX; 11-13-02 at 05:31 PM.
11-13-02, 07:06 PM
#72
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Okay, this thread has now been hooverized. Where the truth is ... who knows? We'll never get to it arguing anyway ... but of one thing I am sure... mess up my thread again (after I spent all this time cleaning it) and you'll find the business end of a 12 gauge stairing ya down powerful fast! 
jk
jk
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