Pele

iTrader: (28)

Is it the cross member that has the engine mounting locations moved forward, or the engine bracket that has the holes moved backwards?

Have a GSL-SE with no engine or drivetrain. I'm pulling the cross member and wondering if it's useful.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The engine bracket is the same.

Having said that, I once noticed a 10mm difference between '84-'85 and '83. I was installing a rebuilt 12A in an '83 and happened to have a nice condition engine bracket from a known '84 12A. It was 10mm off. I grabbed the old rusty stock '83 bracket and it fit fine. I went ahead and cleaned up the rusty stock one, painted it, and used it. Everything lined up ok.

As for the GSL-SE, Mazda mounted the motor mounts further forward but it may only be 10mm, while the other 10mm was taken up by the bracket to equal the full 20mm of extra length of the 13B.

It makes sense for Mazda to do it this way in order to save some money. They changed the interior on the '84-'85 cars as well, and kept them the same whether 12A or 13B. Or maybe I just got a weird engine bracket or something? Somebody else who's actually compared a genuine GSL-SE bracket to an '84-'85 and '83 and older bracket would be more qualified to answer.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

x2 the mount bar is the same 12a or 13b.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

so all 84-85 cross members are the same? i have an SE im about to scrap and i was wondering if i should pull off the crossmember

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

^ He means the mount bars are the same. The crossmembers are different.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

oh, well is there anything special enough about the SE member for me to pull it? hmmm

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Excellent. Perhaps it's a good trade item.

T_Racer

iTrader: (1)

So, would using a -SE cross member in an 83 car allow the same motor mounting bar? I am installing an S5 13B in the '83 with the 12A front cover.

Travis

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

^^ if you can use it, travis you can come get mine for next to nothing

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Yes. When you put a 13B in an FB you need to change the mounting location. This can be done by:

A. Using a GSL-SE crossmember and the original 12A mounting bar.

B. Using the 12A crossmember and a Racing Beat mounting bar.

C. Using the 12A crossmember with redrilled holes and the original mounting bar.

Hope this helps.

Morey987

If you're using an se crossmember,,,, do you still need the 12 a face plate?

Wouldn/t that already be designed for the 13b?

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

When you say "face plate", do you mean the front cover? If so then, no.

You can put a 12A front cover on any series 13B. The main reason it is so popular to use a GSL-SE front cover is for the use of the SE's Oil Metering Pump. The SE's pump has the 4 tubes where the 12A pump only has 2. You need the SE's pump to fit with the oil injection of the later factory intake manifolds.

If you plan to run premix, then there is no need to use an SE front cover, the 12a will work fine.

When you say "face plate", if you mean the mounting bar then, see my previous post.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The 12A front cover will still work fine even without premix. How so? Take a guess. Give up? The 4 line OMPs had less capacity per line than the 2 line 12A type. Just run the two line type into the rotor housings and block off the holes in the manifold. Easy as pie.

Pele

iTrader: (28)

You still need a first gen front cover to mount any 13B into the first gen. Or ar the front mounting bolts (For the bracket) on all of the front covers?

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Yes.

Pele, only the 1st gen and older front covers had the four threaded holes to mount the front bracket thing. '86 and later didn't have them.

Morey987

Ok,,, so since my 79 has a 13b as she sits,,, I'd just need to use its front cover to swap in a 13bt

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Yep.

Good thinking on the OMP Jeff.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I came up with the idea when 100$TS or whatever his name is, asked me some questions about his S4 or S5 engine into a 1st gen a few days ago. The OMP 2 vs 4 line thing popped into my head and I had to tell someone.

T_Racer

iTrader: (1)

You people are the shizzle!!! XlR8 and Jeff, you just won 50 forum bucks each. or a 30 minute session with the forum hooker, your choice. Thanks, arranging to get the se cross member now.

Travis Nelson

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'm in the middle of installing a 13B in a 12A car with the RB bar and I seem to have run into trouble. I know the engine is scewed off to the driver's side in 1st gens, so it needs to be shifted that way a bit, but the oil pan lip hits the motor mount well before the engine is far enough over.

I heard you must grind a little off the motor mount. It's a new competition one, and I'd rather not grind on a brand new part, but it looks like I'll need to.

Am I doing anything wrong?

elwood

iTrader: (1)

As you no doubt know, the competition mounts aren't the same height as the OEM ones. They're in between the OEM RH mount (short) and the OEM LH mount (tall). To get back to the original heights so everything would line up like it did with the OEM mounts, here's what I did:

LH side: Retained the OEM lower cup, installed a stack of 3 fender washers under the mount.

RH side: Discarded the OEM lower cup.

This puts everything back to OEM locations and should correct your interference. BTW -- I needed to extend my crossmember slots upward a few mm on each side so the whole deal would sit properly.

RotaryRevn

Yeah, it's fricken BS that RacingBeat doesn't disclose this. I had the exact same problem. I had to cut a small section out of my motor mount to keep from rubbing. I know one other guy that used the racing beat bracket that also had this problem and had to cut the motor mount so I'm sure it is the norm.

If I knew this going in, I would of rather used the gslse crossmember with gslse front bracket. I recommend against the RB piece for this reason.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Uh what?

I went to work with an open mind. Eyeballing where to grind the motormount and then grinding it was not a problem. Actually I used a hack saw and then ground a few mm to smooth it out (could be done with a file). Engine sits level. No need for fender washers and both cups are there.

The only hard part was pushing the engine so far over toward the driver's side of the bay. It just looked funny, but then the holes lined up. I used a scizzor jack for excellent control (what can't they do).

I removed the scizzor jack, lowered the floor jack supporting the oil pan and the engine nestled down correctly and level into its new home. Truely one of my easier engine installs, and interesting enough to keep my interested.

I recommend the RB bar. They should have mentioned oh by the way you need to chop a little out of your driver's side motor mount edge. Oh well. Like I said it kept things interesting. I'd totally do another 13B into a 12A chassis. A couple minutes with a hack saw and a grinder (optional) is a small price to pay for the bigger engine.

RotaryRevn

Yeah, I used a cutoff wheel, filed the mount down to smooth it out, then repainted that section for a little rust protection. All I'm saying is, if everyone that uses the kit is gonnna need to hack their motor mount, Racing Beat should say that in the catalouge. Just when I thought the engine was in, I had to pull it back up, take out the mount and cut a section off. They sell this piece as a bolt on fix but there is still some modification needed.