ckm110789

Alright. Im having a really hard time decided on what swap to do into my car. I could do a Turbo 2 swap but if I do that im not building or porting it. Its going to be just dropped in. Then I gotta worry about the whole Mounts and wiring.

But if i go 12A-T Imma build it with a BP upgraded Apex seals. But with the 12a I cant find a turbo kit andi gotta build everything such as fuel system upgrade throw a bigger carb on their and just the bunch of differect stuff do get a decent number of power. I want somewhere around 300whp.

Also how much boost can a 12a hold without Upgraded Apex Seals?

EvilJester

Hey man, quick look up...no really look up above you. if you lucky you might see the omfgwtfbbq 1,000,000,000,000 asked question, super bomb heading right at you.


i searched under

12a turbo
13b turbo
12a vs 13b


i stopped counting after 50 thread results that had all the info you needed. And it took me about 20 seconds to find it.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

How long have you owned an RX-7?

ckm110789

ive owned the car for around a year. I got someone that wants me to go 13b carb

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

driving skill?
primary function/use for the car?
budget?
who's doing the work (install and fabrication)?
who's tuning?

answer these questions realistically and truthfully, and you'll have the answer to most of your questions.

680RWHP12A

as long as its got a turbo it dosnt really matter, its gonna fly!
now, please answer diabolical1's post please

ckm110789

Im a damn good driver
Primary use daily driver/ race
About a 5000 doller budget
Im installing doing mostly everything.
Im having a guy from mazdatrix come down and help me with a lil of it and hes going to tune it

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

fair enough ...

unless you can score a very inexpensive 13B-T, i would probably suggest getting a turbo and having a go at your 12A. the money should go further and if you make smart moves with fuel and timing control, your power goal shouldn't be a problem.

i'll make my usual spiel ... stay away from the bridge if this is you daily driver! there, i said it. however, it's your car and you're gonna do what you're gonna do. personally, i'm tempted to tell you to set the car up (turbo, intercooler, piping, exhaust, fuel, etc.) on your engine as is, and then have it built and ported last - for 2 reasons, (1) no matter how much you shop around and may think you have everything planned, you're going to spend more than you budget, and (2) it'll be better to get the car dialed in and use whatever money is left to build your motor (large streetport is how i'd go, by the way) than to build the motor and run out of money before you can use it.

finally, make time to do suspension (including tires) and brakes! Lewis Hamilton has made mistakes with a car way more capable and maintained, so don't rely solely on you "damn good" skills.

good luck.

quasar

Yeah, what he said! I agree with everything he is saying. I'm in the same boat with a second gen I have, the car is all set up with the goodies, now it's time to build the engine, By the way, to help your budget go with the megasquirt, I'm using it with great success! And it's only $200!

ckm110789

Well im thinking about just getting springs for my car and going with the suspension like that. B/c my car already handles amazing. I mean i go through corners sometimes depending on how fast i wanna push it over 100mph and my tires arent even screaching yet. I think a street port would work. How much boost can i run a 2mm ceramic apex seals? Also my motor only has 118,000 miles on it so i might throw a turbo on their like it is like your saying. It was rebuilt 40,000 miles ago. And while im running with that around buy another 12a and build it with the SP and upgraded seals so when i blow this motor it will just drop right in. I cant find a turbo kit for a 12a anywhere tho. And i dont know what i need with a turbo kit since its carb and well boost + carb for me is a dark area.

Naegleria_Fowleri

^Just because your car handles "amazing" for the power it has now means nothing. Suspension will forever be more important than the amount of power the car has. Stock suspension with nothing but springs on it in a car built to handle 105 horsepower is going to scream for mercy as soon as you step on the gas if you have 300 horsepower.

Remember 300 horsepower = nearly 3 times the stock horsepower, meaning suspension needs a lot of work, too.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

look, i don't mean to sound overy critical, but hey, you opened yourself up in that first keystroke.

anyway, here goes. i think you need to read up on some of this stuff. 12A's have 3mm seals. i've honestly never checked on ceramics for a 12A, but i would imagine they exist. however, my point is this they're expensive as hell. they're worth every penny, but they are expensive! if you're going to be spending that kind of money, then why wouldn't you invest in full engine management first.

look, i don't know you. you don't know me. what i say may mean the difference between you killing that car (or yourself) and then blaming "those damned rotaries," just as what i say may not count for ****. i find it hard to believe that your experiences so far with Gen I's are adequate if you think springs is enough to keep these cars planted where you want. snap oversteer is synonymous with them at the limit when stock and in perfectly good health, much less almost 30 years of wear and tear. then on top pf that, as Normality Glitch stated, you're going to triple the power (and more importantly, the torque).

i'm not preaching. i also realize that my way is NOT the only (or even necessarily the "right") way, but it's just some points you may want to consider.

ckm110789

Well your right i dont have much education on the rotaries but atleast im trying to learn. But it was my understanding that their were different years of the 12a and some had 3mm and some had 2mm if i remember right. Also im not going to be kicking this thing sideways and driving it like i stole it most of the time.
so really the suspnesion should be based on how the car is going to be driven.Also the suspension on the car is just be replaces a few thousand miles ago with upgraded Tokico's. Not sure which ones they are pretty sure not the illuminas tho.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Ahh.. This is what I originally wanted to know.

ckm110789, forget the turbo idea for now.

Enjoy an RX-7 as it meant to be. Go ahead and do any bolt-ons that will help. As stated earlier, I would start with suspension and brakes, before any significant horsepower upgrades.

A 12a engine with all the bolts ons can increase power by almost 50%, even without porting. You'd be suprised how much a handful that could be.

Even 150hp in a 1st gen is VERY quick. You might be suprised. I suggest you find some local 1st Gen'ers and see their setups. Perhaps go for a ride with them and see what you like and don't like about their setups.

That way you wont spend any money on parts that dont compliment each other, or that you don't like.

Turbocharging is a whole different animal, and I don't recommend it unless you have signicant experience with Rotaries and 1st gens in general.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well, i commend your trying to learn. i'm all for it.

the 12A came from the early 70's and made it to 1985. as far as i know, they only had 6 mm seals (the really early ones) and 3 mm seals. i can't say when the change was made - my guess would be for the '74 model year. i'm sure it's pretty easy to check though. if you're that interested (or just a stickler for that sort of thing), then contact Jeff20B - off the head, he's pretty learned in the engine years and variations. bottomline - no 2mm seals.

this is the crux of what i wanted to say ... perhaps DF has done a much better job. take heed.

tigermack

iTrader: (5)

No offense, but I found 95% of the people who name themselves good drivers are usually not.

It's more like have you had any experiences with racing?

If I were you, learn how the car handles first, a 12a with just 140whp is enough power to start to learn. It's going to take some time to learn about how the fb functions.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

^ These guys are all giving you excellent advice. I hope you don't think they are being hard on you or whatever. We all have dreams of what we want our cars to be, but it is best to take a slow and stready approach. Start with generally maintence stuff and then get to brakes, suspension, and bolt-on engine parts (exhaust is a big one for rotaries). Things can get expensive and you'll be surprised how fast that $5000 budget can go.

Although the engine has fairly low miles, you'll typically want to rebuild before going turbo. Also it is a good time for porting, oil mods, etc. Just to give an idea of cost, those ceramic apex seals you were talking about will run you about $2000 alone. Stock apex seals will run several hundred $. Then there are all the other parts that you need relating to rebuilding/modifiying. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to do a turbo setup fairly inexpensively, but it takes knowlegde and time to figure out what you can use, what will fit, etc. not to mention making it reliable.

As some guys say on here:

Normally the saying is: cheap, fast, reliable: pick two. Since were have rotaries, we only get to pick one.

Best of luck.

Kent

OnlyOnThurs

Listen to these guys..they know what they are talking about!!!

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

If your motor is still in good condition... I would put these mods in(prices are estimate):

1. Sterling carb + fuel pressure regulator + fuel pump + fuel pressure gauge - $700
2. Racing Beat streetport exhaust - $1000 new
3. Aluminum flywheel + street/strip clutch/pressure plate - $700
4. 2GCDFIS w/TT - $80
5. Racing Beat springs+Tokico HP if you are driving it for daily and not much track days - $500
If you go auto-x or track, i would get Ground control coilovers+camber plates with Tokico Illumina and Respeed Tubular front sway bar. - $1000

ultima 1

ckm110789....thank you for posting this question. I loved seeing this thread being posted.
Wow...some of the answers are hard core from some very experienced posters. kudos.
I have just got a 83 rx7 with 7,500 original miles and the 12a motor has been sitting a long time with questionable results so I am investigating motor options. My suspension has been done already by the Mariah crew but it is so much more exciting checking out turbos and motors than 10mm sway bars and adjustible shocks
I think this was part of the original Q: Is the 13b stuff better in any way, being newer than the 12a stuff?
I think i might be able to CAlifornia smog a complete 13b maybe T setup , which would have MORE horsepower than a 12a setup with bolt on mods. ALTHOUGH, the 12a setup would be easier, much cheaper and maybe a lot more fun but not smog legal here so it could also become a hassle and maybe turn into money lost, later.

darthrotary

True that, I thought i was DAMN GOOD till i got my first gen. The snap oversteer is hard to compensate for. And every LITTLE thing you do to it changes the handling Drastically. Its like getting into a new car everytime you do something.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Cliff,

You'll want to check out posts made by steve84GSTII, then. He has a turbo 13b, 300hp, and passes Cali smog. He use the engine, harness, ECU, etc. out of an S5 (89-91) Rx-7 with the related smog gear.

Both engines can make the power, but the 13b will make the same power with a little less effort compared to 12A. The other thing to consider is that there are more good used 13b parts around plus the ability to get new 13b parts. Many of the 12a parts aren't made anymore since they haven't sold cars with a 12a in over 20 years. Just things to consider.

Good luck to you and the original poster, though.

ultima 1

thanks, I looked for 12a T motors and came up empty.
I am looking for a smooth street motor and the s5 seems like a good candidate.
I can't get the search to find steve84GSTII . I think a tranny swap is also mandatory. will try another search.
cliff

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

LOL

Steve can be found in Your 12A thread. as for the 12A Turbo, i think RotaryShack gets a few every so often.

ultima 1

ok, ok, there's a space before the T2 ...got it ...sent him a PM... will call rotaryshack..thanks, cliff...boy I wish the 20a wasn't so much work