so long Rotary: mazda discontinues RX8s
08-27-11, 03:42 AM
#1
so long Rotary: mazda discontinues RX8s
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/2011...ne/#more-16483
8 was getting a bit ripe anyway. Will be interesting to see if the next Rotary is a sports car. Can't see mazda dropping nearly 50yrs of engineering of a cliff, so they must be working on something...
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
8 was getting a bit ripe anyway. Will be interesting to see if the next Rotary is a sports car. Can't see mazda dropping nearly 50yrs of engineering of a cliff, so they must be working on something...
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
08-27-11, 07:36 AM
#2
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Hate to say it, but I am not surprised or sad to see the RX8 go. If Mazda wants to make a Rotary sports car, it needs to be a real SPORTS car. Not a 4 seater with truck doors. 
And Mazda needs to tell their sales people to stop scaring customers about the rotary. I was in the dealership a week ago and I test drove a Mazda 3 and 6. Then I asked to test an RX8 and two diffferent sales guys said, "I don't want to tell you NOT to buy one, but those rotarys require a lot of maintenance and you need to do a lot to them to keep them in top shape." I kept thinking, does that mean I don't have to change the oil on a Mazda3?
And Mazda needs to tell their sales people to stop scaring customers about the rotary. I was in the dealership a week ago and I test drove a Mazda 3 and 6. Then I asked to test an RX8 and two diffferent sales guys said, "I don't want to tell you NOT to buy one, but those rotarys require a lot of maintenance and you need to do a lot to them to keep them in top shape." I kept thinking, does that mean I don't have to change the oil on a Mazda3?
08-27-11, 12:29 PM
#3
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its perhaps more sad that the one car that's not ugly boring and stupid is now out of production, and the camry lives on....
08-27-11, 12:49 PM
#6
I would phone the sales manager of that dealership and advise him/her that his sales staff actually dissuaded you from buying an Rx8. Unless the profit margins on the 6's and 3's are much better than the Rx8, no salesman should ever tell you what you should buy. Sounds like he was either prejudging your economic situation or mechanical aptitude. And tell him to educate his staff about rotaries, it gives his business and Mazda a bad image.
I find most people don't enjoy driving or cars and likely because most people associate driving with the daily grind of 2 hours commutes into the city or driving to the big box store for groceries and household supplies. It makes them dumb drivers and they value comfort, economy and maintenance free vehicles above all else. That's why Camry's are still around. They are horrible driver's cars but I bet you could run one without an oil change for several years before killing it.
I find most people don't enjoy driving or cars and likely because most people associate driving with the daily grind of 2 hours commutes into the city or driving to the big box store for groceries and household supplies. It makes them dumb drivers and they value comfort, economy and maintenance free vehicles above all else. That's why Camry's are still around. They are horrible driver's cars but I bet you could run one without an oil change for several years before killing it.
08-27-11, 01:01 PM
#7
If it was a used Rx-8, especially 04-05, then he was doing a favor by telling you to stay away. I love rotaries but come on, the Rx-8 had serious problems and engineering flaws that were not fully worked out until Series II 2009+ models came out. And by then it was too late. The biggest culprits were the weak starter and insufficient oiling system that could not properly lubricate the middle of the apex seal.
The problem is that Mazda never really redesigned the rotary until their recent efforts toward the 16X geometry. The 13B came out in 1974 and all they did was tweak it a few times.
The problem is that Mazda never really redesigned the rotary until their recent efforts toward the 16X geometry. The 13B came out in 1974 and all they did was tweak it a few times.
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09-03-11, 05:22 PM
#12
So much for my "lottery dream" of buying a brand-new renesis and all the extra bits to transplant into Spry Beastie some day. Won't be any.
Kind of explains Mazda pulling support out from under the Sevesnstock people, though, doesn't it?
What's the point of promoting enthusiasm for a technology you decided to kill off?
Kind of explains Mazda pulling support out from under the Sevesnstock people, though, doesn't it?
What's the point of promoting enthusiasm for a technology you decided to kill off?
09-03-11, 05:30 PM
#13
i actually expect this to be the end of the production rotary engine.
the enthusiasts will keep it alive for a while.
i believe that was a hint of Ford's control over Mazda and saying "enough is enough", the rotary engine has not done well for mazda regardless of how much they want it to live on and we all do.
the engine has more potential to be had but will never be close to as efficient or make as much power as reciprocating engines due to it's basic design which has its strengths and weaknesses.
in all actuality if they did announce the end of the rotary they might recieve more support and more focus on their new Skyactiv equipped vehicles which are the newest wave of highly efficient solely combustion power low pollution vehicles.
the hydrogen powered rotary was an ill thought out attempt at a hybrid rotary, to which i doubt you will ever see hydrogen filling stations in any regularity. R+D money wasted and probably the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
The Furai is the only thing that enthusiasts have seen a glimpse of for the future, and that is a pipedream future because mazda has never released a true supercar production vehicle. though that is probably the direction these engines are better aimed at, a 3-4 rotor 400 horsepower car that revs for days happily singing it's tune. people would have acknowledged the rotary engines superiority in at least some way with a true performance car to keep up with today's standard. most people driving 8's have no clue it is rotary powered or what that even means, the rotary engine has lost any meaning in the market.
either way i really don't care, the only non renewable parts i have been working on are the engine rotors which there is still a relatively strong supply of. even the 12A engines have had creative ways of overcoming the now nonexistent rotor housing availability.
the enthusiasts will keep it alive for a while.
the engine has more potential to be had but will never be close to as efficient or make as much power as reciprocating engines due to it's basic design which has its strengths and weaknesses.
in all actuality if they did announce the end of the rotary they might recieve more support and more focus on their new Skyactiv equipped vehicles which are the newest wave of highly efficient solely combustion power low pollution vehicles.
the hydrogen powered rotary was an ill thought out attempt at a hybrid rotary, to which i doubt you will ever see hydrogen filling stations in any regularity. R+D money wasted and probably the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
The Furai is the only thing that enthusiasts have seen a glimpse of for the future, and that is a pipedream future because mazda has never released a true supercar production vehicle. though that is probably the direction these engines are better aimed at, a 3-4 rotor 400 horsepower car that revs for days happily singing it's tune. people would have acknowledged the rotary engines superiority in at least some way with a true performance car to keep up with today's standard. most people driving 8's have no clue it is rotary powered or what that even means, the rotary engine has lost any meaning in the market.
either way i really don't care, the only non renewable parts i have been working on are the engine rotors which there is still a relatively strong supply of. even the 12A engines have had creative ways of overcoming the now nonexistent rotor housing availability.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-03-11 at 05:45 PM.
09-03-11, 09:27 PM
#14
All the best in the world to those who want to drive them, but I am not interested in a car where fuel economy is anywhere higher than 4th or 5th on the design priorities list.
Mazda stops making serious sportscars, I stop buying Mazdas.
09-03-11, 11:14 PM
#15
They'll probably always continue with the Miata^. Iconic sportscar that always will be. They needed to drop the renesis in the miata to make it impressive power wise..
I'm not really surprised though. The only thing mazda really had going for the rx8 was looks and the chassis. Everything else wasnt really up to snuff in my opinion. There were too many flaws with it.
Coming from a rotorhead, I don't want to see another rotary powered vehicle come from mazda if its not what it should be.
I understand having emission troubles. I think mazda should be able to get better fuel consumption though. I know guys with 300hp + rotaries getting 24-26 highway mpg. C'mon mazda. You got to do better...
I'm not really surprised though. The only thing mazda really had going for the rx8 was looks and the chassis. Everything else wasnt really up to snuff in my opinion. There were too many flaws with it.
Coming from a rotorhead, I don't want to see another rotary powered vehicle come from mazda if its not what it should be.
I understand having emission troubles. I think mazda should be able to get better fuel consumption though. I know guys with 300hp + rotaries getting 24-26 highway mpg. C'mon mazda. You got to do better...
09-04-11, 12:39 PM
#16
Possibly... but not from me. I don't get excited by fuel efficiency numbers, I don't buy into the legitimacy of a great deal of the government over-sold mandates that make them a necessity - - if a car company wants to make only high-performance cars, they should not be legally penalized for it; consumers should decide that - - and I have never and hope to God will never own an 'economy car.' Call me a throwback, but I am what I am.
All the best in the world to those who want to drive them, but I am not interested in a car where fuel economy is anywhere higher than 4th or 5th on the design priorities list.
Mazda stops making serious sportscars, I stop buying Mazdas.
All the best in the world to those who want to drive them, but I am not interested in a car where fuel economy is anywhere higher than 4th or 5th on the design priorities list.
Mazda stops making serious sportscars, I stop buying Mazdas.
so in effect you have an economical performance oriented car, the rotary engine simply wasn't economical though.
i honestly thought we were reaching the end of the progression of gasoline cumbustion engines for efficiency but Mazda proved me wrong. assuming it isn't simply proaganda that is.
at least Mazda is still trying to keep to their roots in providing a zippy car that gets you more while dumping out less.
now a metallic substrate cat and E85 is a possibility but it's one that's too late for production but easily possible for the consumers to convert their cars to utilize.
unfortunately E85 is priced for yuppies to feel good about not using dino fuels, it is overpriced for what it is. ethanol and methanol as well as any alternate fuels are relagated by the base cost of fossil fuels which is bullshit in itself but what ya gonna do... so E85 is more costly to run than fossil fuel but you get the benefits of running a fuel that is very much "race gas" like, renewable and environmentally green. i have been seriously considering switching myself BUT filling stations are still very limited and the range of your gas tank per fillup is reduced.
so you have fossil fuel + water injection or E85 which are the 2 most common setups these days. i just can't see myself making it across the US with E85 though if i needed to due to the above.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-04-11 at 12:54 PM.
09-04-11, 01:02 PM
#17
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they were working to incorporate the skyactiv technology into the rotary.
i doubt they waisted all the money and resources they put in to the new 1.6L to just scrap rotary completely.
i doubt they waisted all the money and resources they put in to the new 1.6L to just scrap rotary completely.
09-04-11, 01:35 PM
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http://www.caradvice.com.au/125120/m...nition-report/
"The suggestion that the laser ignition system could make an appearance in the new rotary comes after a comment made by a senior engineer at Mazda. He said the upcoming rotary sports car would use a “special kind of ignition system”. This special ignition is expected to be applied to Mazda’s latest rotary engine development, an engine dubbed the 16X Renesis.
Using laser ignition could allow the new rotary to pass the latest and upcoming emissions regulations, such as the Euro 5 and Euro 6, both of which the current Mazda RX-8 is unable to pass. Reports say the technology could provide a more complete and more controlled method of ignition for each combustion chamber, and help the new rotary run leaner and thus more efficiently.
The laser setup is likely to require a smaller hole tapped into the combustion chamber of the engine too, compared with the conventional spark plug design. This would lend itself well to Mazda’s aim of creating a more compact and lighter engine. The engine also promises to offer more torque than the current 13B 1.3-litre rotary, thanks, in part, to the larger 1.6-litre capacity.
Mazda hasn’t officially announced what the new model will be called, or if it will definitely see the light of day. Even so, reports suggest it will be named the Mazda RX-9.
It is all a bit hazy at this stage, we’ll keep you updated as more details are uncovered. In the meantime, tell us what you think, should the rotary engine live on? Or should Mazda develop a more efficient and economical method of propelling the sports car? Electricity perhaps?"
the inability to pass those new emissions test is probably why its getting scrapped
"The suggestion that the laser ignition system could make an appearance in the new rotary comes after a comment made by a senior engineer at Mazda. He said the upcoming rotary sports car would use a “special kind of ignition system”. This special ignition is expected to be applied to Mazda’s latest rotary engine development, an engine dubbed the 16X Renesis.
Using laser ignition could allow the new rotary to pass the latest and upcoming emissions regulations, such as the Euro 5 and Euro 6, both of which the current Mazda RX-8 is unable to pass. Reports say the technology could provide a more complete and more controlled method of ignition for each combustion chamber, and help the new rotary run leaner and thus more efficiently.
The laser setup is likely to require a smaller hole tapped into the combustion chamber of the engine too, compared with the conventional spark plug design. This would lend itself well to Mazda’s aim of creating a more compact and lighter engine. The engine also promises to offer more torque than the current 13B 1.3-litre rotary, thanks, in part, to the larger 1.6-litre capacity.
Mazda hasn’t officially announced what the new model will be called, or if it will definitely see the light of day. Even so, reports suggest it will be named the Mazda RX-9.
It is all a bit hazy at this stage, we’ll keep you updated as more details are uncovered. In the meantime, tell us what you think, should the rotary engine live on? Or should Mazda develop a more efficient and economical method of propelling the sports car? Electricity perhaps?"
the inability to pass those new emissions test is probably why its getting scrapped
09-04-11, 01:43 PM
#20
emissions being a key part of the equation as to why they have halted the RX8 and possibly the engine altogether forever.
europe is basically trying to force inefficient vehicles off the road, and i tend to agree because the cars need to start getting more compact and efficient because of overpopulation in urban areas.
europe is basically trying to force inefficient vehicles off the road, and i tend to agree because the cars need to start getting more compact and efficient because of overpopulation in urban areas.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-04-11 at 01:47 PM.
09-04-11, 06:43 PM
#22
No offense, Karack, but maybe you shouldn't assume that I haven't.
I've read a number of articles on Skyactiv already.
There's a long distance between "zippy" and high performance. Especially when it's already public knowledge that the US will get 'detuned' versions.
I've read a number of articles on Skyactiv already.
There's a long distance between "zippy" and high performance. Especially when it's already public knowledge that the US will get 'detuned' versions.
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