Five Reasons “Cash for Clunkers” is a Joke
06-28-09 | 11:19 PM
#1
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Southern California
Five Reasons “Cash for Clunkers” is a Joke
Thought this CAR & DRIVER.com article entertaining. Who'll volunteer to implement reason/point #4 saving the 1985 FB-RX-7s that fall prey to this political maneuver.
What's your take on the effect this offer will have on reducing the remaining '85 RX-7s on the road? Could this initiative siginificantly reduce or increase the stock of available FB parts? Is this legislation to remove potentially classic cars from the road a sign of the apocalypse?
Here's a FAQ and calculator site provided by FORD: http://www.letfordrecycleyourride.com/faq.aspx
__________________
By Steve Siler •
With news that Congress has passed its ballyhooed $1 billion “Cash for Clunkers” bill, we feel compelled to voice our skepticism about the program. Here’s the bill in a nutshell: Buyers of new vehicles between July 1 and November 1 will be given a voucher for $3500 if they forfeit a post-1984 car or truck that has been registered for at least one year and has a combined fuel economy rating at least 4 mpg lower than their new vehicle. The voucher grows to $4500 if the increase in fuel economy is 10 mpg or higher. The old car or truck is then crushed and recycled.
Here are five reasons we don’t think this program is worth the time it took to draft it, let alone a billion dollars:
1. The voucher replaces the trade-in deal you might otherwise get from the dealership; it’s not in addition to the car’s private sale or trade-in value. In other words, if you’re trading in a car that’s worth $3000, your net gain is only $500. Although if your car is worth $100, CFC couldn’t come at a better time.
2. We’re not sure how many folks driving cars worth $3500 or less are in the market for a new car in the first place. Sure, there’s the occasional fresh-out-of-college new-hire (we’re not sure who’s hiring right now, but we’ll play make-believe) that might still be ready to move from a Dodge Omni to a shiny new Honda Insight, but people driving cheap old beaters are probably doing so because they can’t afford a new car. And $3500 doesn’t go far when the average transaction price of new cars hovers around $24K. The vouchers don’t apply toward the purchase of used cars, for which the majority of old beaters are traded in.
3. People driving large, gas-gulping old cars and trucks often do so because they need the utility those vehicles provide. Old station wagons, for example, have few modern counterparts that are as versatile while achieving better fuel economy. Ditto pickups, which have gotten bigger and more capable but not much more fuel-efficient. And if the government thinks that someone is going to step out of a 1994 Dodge Ram into a Honda Fit, they need to get out of D.C. a little more often.
4. Naturally, we have some reservations about any bill designed to facilitate wiping out—we’re sorry, recycling—any automotive species. And let’s face it, while there are a lot of bona fide clunkers out there, we’re afraid that a bunch of future classics will get caught in this roundup. We propose, then, that a certified auto enthusiast (paid, of course) be placed at all certified CFC dealerships to screen the cars that are brought in, returning the cool cars—including anything with T-tops—to the streets.
5. Besides cleansing the U.S. of gas-guzzling pigs, the other supposed benefit of the CFC program is to provide a short-term boost to the starving auto business. However, we hope these legislators don’t expect it to meaningfully help the domestic automakers. Many of the automobiles with fuel-economy ratings high enough to qualify for the vouchers come from Japan and Korea.
On the bright side, the cost to taxpayers will be minimal when no one actually participates.
What's your take on the effect this offer will have on reducing the remaining '85 RX-7s on the road? Could this initiative siginificantly reduce or increase the stock of available FB parts? Is this legislation to remove potentially classic cars from the road a sign of the apocalypse?
Here's a FAQ and calculator site provided by FORD: http://www.letfordrecycleyourride.com/faq.aspx
__________________
By Steve Siler •
With news that Congress has passed its ballyhooed $1 billion “Cash for Clunkers” bill, we feel compelled to voice our skepticism about the program. Here’s the bill in a nutshell: Buyers of new vehicles between July 1 and November 1 will be given a voucher for $3500 if they forfeit a post-1984 car or truck that has been registered for at least one year and has a combined fuel economy rating at least 4 mpg lower than their new vehicle. The voucher grows to $4500 if the increase in fuel economy is 10 mpg or higher. The old car or truck is then crushed and recycled.
Here are five reasons we don’t think this program is worth the time it took to draft it, let alone a billion dollars:
1. The voucher replaces the trade-in deal you might otherwise get from the dealership; it’s not in addition to the car’s private sale or trade-in value. In other words, if you’re trading in a car that’s worth $3000, your net gain is only $500. Although if your car is worth $100, CFC couldn’t come at a better time.
2. We’re not sure how many folks driving cars worth $3500 or less are in the market for a new car in the first place. Sure, there’s the occasional fresh-out-of-college new-hire (we’re not sure who’s hiring right now, but we’ll play make-believe) that might still be ready to move from a Dodge Omni to a shiny new Honda Insight, but people driving cheap old beaters are probably doing so because they can’t afford a new car. And $3500 doesn’t go far when the average transaction price of new cars hovers around $24K. The vouchers don’t apply toward the purchase of used cars, for which the majority of old beaters are traded in.
3. People driving large, gas-gulping old cars and trucks often do so because they need the utility those vehicles provide. Old station wagons, for example, have few modern counterparts that are as versatile while achieving better fuel economy. Ditto pickups, which have gotten bigger and more capable but not much more fuel-efficient. And if the government thinks that someone is going to step out of a 1994 Dodge Ram into a Honda Fit, they need to get out of D.C. a little more often.
4. Naturally, we have some reservations about any bill designed to facilitate wiping out—we’re sorry, recycling—any automotive species. And let’s face it, while there are a lot of bona fide clunkers out there, we’re afraid that a bunch of future classics will get caught in this roundup. We propose, then, that a certified auto enthusiast (paid, of course) be placed at all certified CFC dealerships to screen the cars that are brought in, returning the cool cars—including anything with T-tops—to the streets.
5. Besides cleansing the U.S. of gas-guzzling pigs, the other supposed benefit of the CFC program is to provide a short-term boost to the starving auto business. However, we hope these legislators don’t expect it to meaningfully help the domestic automakers. Many of the automobiles with fuel-economy ratings high enough to qualify for the vouchers come from Japan and Korea.
On the bright side, the cost to taxpayers will be minimal when no one actually participates.
06-29-09 | 02:42 AM
#3
Good article. I am for it, as long as it is something like people trading in LeBarons or Delta 88's.
I swear if I hear "cost to taxpayers" come out of DC one more time...
I swear if I hear "cost to taxpayers" come out of DC one more time...
06-29-09 | 10:28 AM
#5
1st-Class Engine Janitor
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From: Chino Hills, CA
Reason 6: It should be none of the government's goddamned business what I choose to drive. It's their job to maximize our freedoms, not impinge upon them simply to appease their donors.
06-29-09 | 12:14 PM
#7
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,669
Likes: 9
From: Chino and Lake Arrowhead Calif
Just more BULLSHIT Socialistic programs that "Comrade" Obama and "****" Pelosi are coming out with. I have a friend who has a CHERRY 1984 RX-7 that he has been trying to sell.... No real bites so far. He wants $2500 for a NICE RX-7!!!
Please check out this link and help him out if possible.
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1208878204.html
See said last night he is SERIOUSLY thinking about taking Hitler....err I mean Obama's plan into serious thought!
Please check out this link and help him out if possible.
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1208878204.html
See said last night he is SERIOUSLY thinking about taking Hitler....err I mean Obama's plan into serious thought!
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06-29-09 | 01:46 PM
#9
Very good article, and I agree with you guys, this is a complete waste of time and our tax money. Obama and his administration seemed to be promising months ago, but lately I'm not liking where he's going.... Oh well I guess...
06-29-09 | 05:51 PM
#11
You guys are really getting your hackles up over a guy with good intentions and a plan to at least try to help salvage an auto industry that went belly up because of the unregulated, self-indulgent, "freedom" loving earth and economy destroying habits of 20 years of Republican legislation and over indulgent American consumers.
George Bush and croonies dug a hole so deep it will be very hard for us to climb back out, but at the very least it will require new ideas and new intitiatives. Some will work, some won't. But sitting on your asses belly aching about losing an election is for sure not going to help.
US citizens pay the lowest taxes of any civilized nation, we can do much better for our country and for the entire world community. Paying a bit more of our generous incomes to assure a secure nation and liveable world is just plain smart investing. Civilization isn't free and freedom without responsibility is a joke.
And Bonzai is exactly right, there's no such thing as a 1st gen RX-7 clunker so dudes get off your soap boxes, this ain't the time and place.
George Bush and croonies dug a hole so deep it will be very hard for us to climb back out, but at the very least it will require new ideas and new intitiatives. Some will work, some won't. But sitting on your asses belly aching about losing an election is for sure not going to help.
US citizens pay the lowest taxes of any civilized nation, we can do much better for our country and for the entire world community. Paying a bit more of our generous incomes to assure a secure nation and liveable world is just plain smart investing. Civilization isn't free and freedom without responsibility is a joke.
And Bonzai is exactly right, there's no such thing as a 1st gen RX-7 clunker so dudes get off your soap boxes, this ain't the time and place.
06-29-09 | 11:55 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 520
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From: Southern California
At the risk of raising more hackles allow me to summarize- sorry Ray I couldn't resist:
Bush bad - Obama good
freedom bad - government regulation good
20 years of Republicans bad - 20 years of ??? good
self-indulgent / over-indulgent "freedom" loving American consumers bad
it's patriotic to pay more taxes and we should stop sitting on our asses belly aching, be good citizens of the world, and pay much more taxes to assure a secure nation and liveable world
______
Now is the time and place to be informed as the road to hell is paved with...
Freedom is not free
Power driven, beholden to special interest donors, seemingly unaccountable politicians are a disgrace that each of us as voters should vigilantly reckon with.
Bush bad - Obama good
freedom bad - government regulation good
20 years of Republicans bad - 20 years of ??? good
self-indulgent / over-indulgent "freedom" loving American consumers bad
it's patriotic to pay more taxes and we should stop sitting on our asses belly aching, be good citizens of the world, and pay much more taxes to assure a secure nation and liveable world
______
Now is the time and place to be informed as the road to hell is paved with...
Freedom is not free
Power driven, beholden to special interest donors, seemingly unaccountable politicians are a disgrace that each of us as voters should vigilantly reckon with.
06-30-09 | 12:32 AM
#13
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,663
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, South Carolina
There's one thing yall seem to be over looking. It's OPTIONAL. So your rx7 wont be crushed unless that owner wants to trade it in for credit (Which really is none of our business to start with...) But the only people who would be taking advantage of this are people with truely busted up cars. Like that person with that old car sitting in their yard that's just rusting etc... While I personally think the whole dem vs rep is pretty stupid, conservatives have been getting paranoid over every little thing that Obama's done. Give it a rest or run for your local office if you have problems with the government.
edit, I just seen the ad at the bottom of the screen
edit, I just seen the ad at the bottom of the screen
Last edited by jshiz; 06-30-09 at 12:36 AM.
06-30-09 | 12:47 AM
#14
omg... the truth is, politics suck! just drive your car and live your life, don't fight over something until they start telling you that you CAN NO LONGER DRIVE YOUR CAR. if they go that far kill them. I hate it when someone tries to tell you that you cannot do something etc...
06-30-09 | 08:31 AM
#16
06-30-09 | 09:03 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
It's a rather wonderful thing that our appreciation for a classic sports car brings us together, bolsters our enthusiasm and builds friendships which supersede political viewpoints.
I'm grateful for our RX7Club, as each day I learn from the members across this forum and find it a constant source of stimulating thought, entertainment and kinship.
Thanks all for commenting to my original post in this thread.
Long live the RX-7 and our club.
I'm grateful for our RX7Club, as each day I learn from the members across this forum and find it a constant source of stimulating thought, entertainment and kinship.
Thanks all for commenting to my original post in this thread.
Long live the RX-7 and our club.
06-30-09 | 12:49 PM
#19
Funny you should bring that up. I was reading through the cash for clunkers deal, and was like "WTF? I thought FBs already got better mileage than that!" When my car was running stock I could get around 22mpg if the winds were blowing in my favor. With the new dellorto, I'm not so sure....
06-30-09 | 01:16 PM
#20
Very true, I get 20-23 depending on where I'm driving on both my 12a and T2 powered FB's so it doesn't count.
In reference jshiz's post, we know its optional, what we're worried about is how this might affect potential project or parts cars. Rather than selling a beat up old FB to someone like us who could restore it or part it to keep others going they will have it recycled because they will make more money. Good for them, bad for us, especially those of us who have FC engines/parts on their FB.... Oh well
In reference jshiz's post, we know its optional, what we're worried about is how this might affect potential project or parts cars. Rather than selling a beat up old FB to someone like us who could restore it or part it to keep others going they will have it recycled because they will make more money. Good for them, bad for us, especially those of us who have FC engines/parts on their FB.... Oh well
06-30-09 | 01:21 PM
#21
if one of the key things is 18mpg... no rx7 can be traded in. and it excludes most other cars as well. this thing definitely is a joke. i'm pretty sure it would exclude trans ams and other v8 cars as well as they get more than a 18mpg combined (new / epa) rating
06-30-09 | 04:02 PM
#23
Yep after reading all the rules I came away with the conclusion that FBs and SAs are totally ineligible for clunker funds. Too small, too fuel efficient, too old.
So no 3rd gen 2010 Mazda Miata for me this year (sob), it's GSLs from here on in
I think it's discrimination, American cars qualify but Japanese cars don't. Especially rotaries. We should sue the government.
So no 3rd gen 2010 Mazda Miata for me this year (sob), it's GSLs from here on in
I think it's discrimination, American cars qualify but Japanese cars don't. Especially rotaries. We should sue the government.
