Ethanol blended gas for a 1982 RX7
#26
#27
I know viton will stand up to all types of gasoline, but im pretty sure if you do use neoprene and nitril, they get eaten over time with E10 and turn to crap clogging the lines.
ahh yes methanol, im sure if i poured it over my hand it would eat thru me too! my neighbor that lives behind me runs it in a chevy II, i love that smell that just floods my backyard!
ahh yes methanol, im sure if i poured it over my hand it would eat thru me too! my neighbor that lives behind me runs it in a chevy II, i love that smell that just floods my backyard!
#28
there are different grades of viton with different concentrations for different uses. its wierd you say this because it is the material i rebuilt my mech fuel pump with pretty much the only diaphragm material on the market and recommended. im sure if you used pure alchol then yes i would say deffinately switch to steel but you would have to switch out a lot more than just the needles and seats.(jets, air bleeds,ect.)
#30
I was told many years ago, by one of the top Racing Carb Builders that Viton Needle tips would be eaten by alcohol, and the conversation was about the up coming change to ethanol blended fuels. Things may have changed as technology changes.. I still wouldn't chance it
Last edited by RacerM95; 08-08-12 at 11:28 AM.
#32
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From: Chino Hills, CA
Sorry to be disagreeable, but...
Viton® properties provide benefits for tough applications
Biofuels are aggressive with elastomers; viton can withstand their assault
TL;DR version: duPont says Viton is OK with Ethanol.
I personally have several suspicions about a number of problems E10 fuel (& particularly the special high-vapor-pressure 'boutique' fuels California mandates) causes with carburetted cars, older cars in general, and TR-equipped SA's in particular... but having used viton-tipped needles in my SA for over 20 years in Cali & having seen zero degradation of the tips beyond mechanical wear, this isn't one of them.
Viton® properties provide benefits for tough applications
4. Resistance to degradation by a greater variety of fluids and chemicals than any non-fluorinated elastomer, providing the best proven fluid resistance of any commercial rubber. Excellent resistance to oils, fuels, lubricants, and most mineral acids.
5. Extremely low permeability to a broad range of substances, including particularly good performance in oxygenated automotive fuels.
5. Extremely low permeability to a broad range of substances, including particularly good performance in oxygenated automotive fuels.
Tests7,8 show that Viton® has:
1. Excellent compatibility with fresh and contaminated biodiesel, and with ethanol.
2. High resistance to permeation and chemical attack by alcohol, pure ethanol and blends of ethanol with hydrocarbon fuel (see Figures 2,3 and 4).
1. Excellent compatibility with fresh and contaminated biodiesel, and with ethanol.
2. High resistance to permeation and chemical attack by alcohol, pure ethanol and blends of ethanol with hydrocarbon fuel (see Figures 2,3 and 4).
I personally have several suspicions about a number of problems E10 fuel (& particularly the special high-vapor-pressure 'boutique' fuels California mandates) causes with carburetted cars, older cars in general, and TR-equipped SA's in particular... but having used viton-tipped needles in my SA for over 20 years in Cali & having seen zero degradation of the tips beyond mechanical wear, this isn't one of them.
#33
Thank you for all your comments on ethanol blended gas. But, there certainly doesn't seem to be any consensus whether it is a problem for 1st gen cars or not. All I can say is that I have been using it since it was introduced in Minnesota and thus far I do not find any problems, hope it continues to be OK.
G Simons
G Simons
#35
Thank you for all your comments on ethanol blended gas. But, there certainly doesn't seem to be any consensus whether it is a problem for 1st gen cars or not. All I can say is that I have been using it since it was introduced in Minnesota and thus far I do not find any problems, hope it continues to be OK.
G Simons
G Simons
I use 93 ethanol gas in my 13B with S5 rotors. I got no quams with it. I have Viton oil rings, but I don't belive they touch gasoline too much (not that I think it matters).
#38
Alaska: all stations dispense ethanol-free gasoline.
Canada: all Shell V-Power 91 is ethanol-free.
Alberta, Nova Scotia: all stations dispense ethanol-free gasoline. Some also dispense E10, so check the pump.
British Columbia: all 94-octane Chevron fuel is ethanol-free.
From here: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
Canada: all Shell V-Power 91 is ethanol-free.
Alberta, Nova Scotia: all stations dispense ethanol-free gasoline. Some also dispense E10, so check the pump.
British Columbia: all 94-octane Chevron fuel is ethanol-free.
From here: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
#42
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In other news; ethanol will be making your hamburgers a lot more expensive next year... so, in order to help, the federal government is doing what it can to also make meat prices higher this year, by spending your money to compete with you in the purchasing market.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/examin...6#.UDJqc1Jn2TO
Crazy-talk.
Campaigning in Missouri Valley, Iowa, yesterday, President Obama announced yet another government spending program -- this time designed to inflate meat prices in Midwest swing states. "Today the Department of Agriculture announced that it will buy up to $100 million worth of pork products, $50 million worth of chicken, and $20 million worth of lamb and farm-raised catfish," Obama explained to reporters in front of a drought-stricken cornfield.
"Prices are low, farmers and ranchers need help, so it makes sense," Obama explained. "It makes sense for farmers who get to sell more of their product, and it makes sense for taxpayers who will save money because we're getting food we would have bought anyway at a better price."
None of this makes sense. In fact, Obama's move only harms American consumers while protecting a corrupt federal program.
A drought is currently driving down corn production. The shortage of feed is forcing livestock producers to slaughter animals early, putting downward pressure on meat prices in the short run and guaranteeing shortages and higher prices next year. But nature is not the biggest factor in this crisis -- the government is. Specifically, the federal government's ethanol mandate, which requires that 13.2 billion gallons of corn-based ethanol be produced in 2012.
Thanks to the ethanol mandate, more than 40 percent of the nation's corn crop now goes into the production of a useless fuel that hardly anyone would buy if the government didn't require it. That's up from just 17 percent in 2005, before the mandate went into effect. Only 36 percent of the corn crop now goes for feed, and 24 percent goes for food.
Obama could solve this problem instantly by suspending the federal ethanol mandate -- something his EPA actually can do unilaterally and legally. Instead, Obama will buy up meat -- a move that meat producers say won't help them much anyway. "It doesn't solve the problem of having enough affordable corn next summer," industry analyst Steve Meyer told Reuters. "Without changing the ethanol program, nothing can be done," he said.
The higher corn prices caused by the mandate and the drought have also driven up the price of ethanol by 33 percent since May, which means -- again, thanks to the mandate -- higher gas prices at the pump. Nationally, the average price of a gallon of gas rose 16 cents in July, an all-time record hike for that month. Prices rose an additional eight cents just last week. Gas is already more than four dollars a gallon in California and is expected to go higher.
Hailing from the corn-producing state of Illinois, Obama has always been a supporter of special government benefits for ethanol producers. But even environmentalists rejected ethanol long ago, when scientists established that it actually increases carbon and smog emissions.
To recap, government is driving up the cost of food, animal feed and gasoline, and Obama's solution is to drive up meat prices as well. Obama could eliminate the entire problem overnight and reduce carbon emissions were he to waive the ethanol mandate in a time of drought. Instead, he is creating a new spending program to mollify livestock producers, who, were it not for the ethanol mandate, would be able to make an honest living without his help.
Last week, Obama said he wants to do for other industries what he did for General Motors. If by this he meant waste taxpayers' money to preserve a lousy status quo, then bravo and mission accomplished.
"Prices are low, farmers and ranchers need help, so it makes sense," Obama explained. "It makes sense for farmers who get to sell more of their product, and it makes sense for taxpayers who will save money because we're getting food we would have bought anyway at a better price."
None of this makes sense. In fact, Obama's move only harms American consumers while protecting a corrupt federal program.
A drought is currently driving down corn production. The shortage of feed is forcing livestock producers to slaughter animals early, putting downward pressure on meat prices in the short run and guaranteeing shortages and higher prices next year. But nature is not the biggest factor in this crisis -- the government is. Specifically, the federal government's ethanol mandate, which requires that 13.2 billion gallons of corn-based ethanol be produced in 2012.
Thanks to the ethanol mandate, more than 40 percent of the nation's corn crop now goes into the production of a useless fuel that hardly anyone would buy if the government didn't require it. That's up from just 17 percent in 2005, before the mandate went into effect. Only 36 percent of the corn crop now goes for feed, and 24 percent goes for food.
Obama could solve this problem instantly by suspending the federal ethanol mandate -- something his EPA actually can do unilaterally and legally. Instead, Obama will buy up meat -- a move that meat producers say won't help them much anyway. "It doesn't solve the problem of having enough affordable corn next summer," industry analyst Steve Meyer told Reuters. "Without changing the ethanol program, nothing can be done," he said.
The higher corn prices caused by the mandate and the drought have also driven up the price of ethanol by 33 percent since May, which means -- again, thanks to the mandate -- higher gas prices at the pump. Nationally, the average price of a gallon of gas rose 16 cents in July, an all-time record hike for that month. Prices rose an additional eight cents just last week. Gas is already more than four dollars a gallon in California and is expected to go higher.
Hailing from the corn-producing state of Illinois, Obama has always been a supporter of special government benefits for ethanol producers. But even environmentalists rejected ethanol long ago, when scientists established that it actually increases carbon and smog emissions.
To recap, government is driving up the cost of food, animal feed and gasoline, and Obama's solution is to drive up meat prices as well. Obama could eliminate the entire problem overnight and reduce carbon emissions were he to waive the ethanol mandate in a time of drought. Instead, he is creating a new spending program to mollify livestock producers, who, were it not for the ethanol mandate, would be able to make an honest living without his help.
Last week, Obama said he wants to do for other industries what he did for General Motors. If by this he meant waste taxpayers' money to preserve a lousy status quo, then bravo and mission accomplished.
Crazy-talk.
#43
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