(OTHER) Won't Idle
08-29-01, 11:54 AM
#1
Passenger
Posts: n/a
(OTHER) Won't Idle
Yo Folks,
I'm a first timer, so take it easy and excuse if I transgress any unwritten codes.
Here's the history:
'85 SLE, (70,000 mi, black w/ brown leather int...nice, stock)
Engine blew shortly after purchase. He saw me coming!!
The car sat outside in the cold and snow for apx. 4 years (forgive me) waiting patiently.
New engine (12A?) from Hayes Rotary (ported). Installed by local import shop.
Carborator rebuilt locally, also.
Problem:
Won"t start without go juice into the carb. Won't idle without either pulling out the choke or constantly working the accelerator to keep the rpm's in the 2500 to 3000 range. Otherwise, it runs great when it gets into the higher rpm's. I need either 3 arms or 3 legs to run the car.
The install shop is blaming the carb shop and visa versa. I think they both suck (sorry).
The carb shop says the engine is messed up and not making enough vacuum. I've heard this is characteristic of rotarys. Hayes rotary says it may need more break in.
The problem is I have to go with a stock carb. for emissions purposes and a new one is apx. $1000.00 (which I should have bought, in retrospect).
Questions:
1. What's wrong? Again, take it easy on the tech. as I'm new and clueless. I also owned a '79 but it ran so well I never had to learn it. I'm not completely clueless as I have rebuilt 4 strokes that actually ran, but this rotary stuff is a totally different bird.
2. Are there any guru's up here in Alaska I can pester? The shops seem to be clueless and I fear I will have to figure this one out myself.
3. What are the best manuals? I see that's in a previous thread so you can skip this question if you like.
You folks run a nice tight ship here. Excuse the length of post.
Thanks in advance,
Hozer.
I'm a first timer, so take it easy and excuse if I transgress any unwritten codes.
Here's the history:
'85 SLE, (70,000 mi, black w/ brown leather int...nice, stock)
Engine blew shortly after purchase. He saw me coming!!
The car sat outside in the cold and snow for apx. 4 years (forgive me) waiting patiently.
New engine (12A?) from Hayes Rotary (ported). Installed by local import shop.
Carborator rebuilt locally, also.
Problem:
Won"t start without go juice into the carb. Won't idle without either pulling out the choke or constantly working the accelerator to keep the rpm's in the 2500 to 3000 range. Otherwise, it runs great when it gets into the higher rpm's. I need either 3 arms or 3 legs to run the car.
The install shop is blaming the carb shop and visa versa. I think they both suck (sorry).
The carb shop says the engine is messed up and not making enough vacuum. I've heard this is characteristic of rotarys. Hayes rotary says it may need more break in.
The problem is I have to go with a stock carb. for emissions purposes and a new one is apx. $1000.00 (which I should have bought, in retrospect).
Questions:
1. What's wrong? Again, take it easy on the tech. as I'm new and clueless. I also owned a '79 but it ran so well I never had to learn it. I'm not completely clueless as I have rebuilt 4 strokes that actually ran, but this rotary stuff is a totally different bird.
2. Are there any guru's up here in Alaska I can pester? The shops seem to be clueless and I fear I will have to figure this one out myself.
3. What are the best manuals? I see that's in a previous thread so you can skip this question if you like.
You folks run a nice tight ship here. Excuse the length of post.
Thanks in advance,
Hozer.
08-29-01, 01:21 PM
#4
Can Barely Afford Gas :(
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Yeah im thinking its a problem with the carb... or a vaccum leak... go over all the vaccum lines make sure all of them are goin someplace and the ones that arent make sure they are capped off with rubber nipples... if they look old and cracked than it might be time to install new vaccum lines which is an easy 1 weekend afternoon job that you can do yourself.
08-29-01, 02:35 PM
#5
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Won't Idle
Update:
Excuse me folks GSL (?).
I talked to a Hayes Rotary mechanic and he said the fact that it dies and won't restart regardless of how much I pump the accelerator indicates the accelerator pump on the carborator and not a vacuum leak. The Hayes people have been way cool so far.
I have decided to:
1. Cancel my appointment with the shop.
2. Pull the carb myself and take it back to the rebuilder. I still owe them $120.00 so I have some leverage.
3. Order a factory service manual from the local Mazda dealer.
Thanks for all your input so far.
Hozer
Excuse me folks GSL (?).
I talked to a Hayes Rotary mechanic and he said the fact that it dies and won't restart regardless of how much I pump the accelerator indicates the accelerator pump on the carborator and not a vacuum leak. The Hayes people have been way cool so far.
I have decided to:
1. Cancel my appointment with the shop.
2. Pull the carb myself and take it back to the rebuilder. I still owe them $120.00 so I have some leverage.
3. Order a factory service manual from the local Mazda dealer.
Thanks for all your input so far.
Hozer
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08-29-01, 07:51 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I agree with Hayes, accelerator pump...
The best Manual you can get is the Haynes Mazda RX-7 79 thru 85
You can get it or order it from any National Chain Car Parts Store, or order it off the net. Costs about $12 to $15.
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib....
The best Manual you can get is the Haynes Mazda RX-7 79 thru 85
You can get it or order it from any National Chain Car Parts Store, or order it off the net. Costs about $12 to $15.
Denny, from the 'ol corncrib....
08-31-01, 12:21 PM
#9
Passenger
Posts: n/a
2nd update:
Folks,
The car now idles just fine (?) even though I didn't do anything to it (a little high tho; 2000 rpm's). What are your suggested idle rpm's? I just ran it out a little. What this would indicate to me is some gunk left in the lines from it sitting for so long (4 - 5 yrs.).
We also figured out a way to get it to start. I pump the crap out of the accelerator before I crank it and also while it's cranking. This will get it fired up. At this rate my right calf's going to look like a football!!!!!
My friend cracked that I should run a tube through the dash into the carb. Then I can stick the red tube from a can of WD-40 into it every time I want to start it.
All symptoms point to the accelerator pump on the carb:
1. Won't start unless you pump the accelerator excessively.
2. Huge dead spot when I start out in first gear.
3. Most conclusive......when we look into the carb as the accelerator is pumped there is barely a drip of gas.
I am intimidated about pulling the carb myself when I look at that mess. I will probably get a pro to do it.
Next Move:
1. I filled up the tank with fresh gas.
2. I plan on putting some Marvel Mystery Oil into the gas tank and running it out.
Any additive suggestions would be appreciated.
3. Yank that nasty carb and bring it back to the rebuilder.
I'm still looking for a Haynes manual. NAPA had '79 to '83 and 86' on up (duh). Schmucks (sp?) only carried Chiltons. That one seemed to cover a big range of cars and I felt it would not be specific enough.
Thanks for your help so far.
Hozer.
Folks,
The car now idles just fine (?) even though I didn't do anything to it (a little high tho; 2000 rpm's). What are your suggested idle rpm's? I just ran it out a little. What this would indicate to me is some gunk left in the lines from it sitting for so long (4 - 5 yrs.).
We also figured out a way to get it to start. I pump the crap out of the accelerator before I crank it and also while it's cranking. This will get it fired up. At this rate my right calf's going to look like a football!!!!!
My friend cracked that I should run a tube through the dash into the carb. Then I can stick the red tube from a can of WD-40 into it every time I want to start it.
All symptoms point to the accelerator pump on the carb:
1. Won't start unless you pump the accelerator excessively.
2. Huge dead spot when I start out in first gear.
3. Most conclusive......when we look into the carb as the accelerator is pumped there is barely a drip of gas.
I am intimidated about pulling the carb myself when I look at that mess. I will probably get a pro to do it.
Next Move:
1. I filled up the tank with fresh gas.
2. I plan on putting some Marvel Mystery Oil into the gas tank and running it out.
Any additive suggestions would be appreciated.
3. Yank that nasty carb and bring it back to the rebuilder.
I'm still looking for a Haynes manual. NAPA had '79 to '83 and 86' on up (duh). Schmucks (sp?) only carried Chiltons. That one seemed to cover a big range of cars and I felt it would not be specific enough.
Thanks for your help so far.
Hozer.
08-31-01, 01:30 PM
#10
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Antonio, Tx
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Check the little windows on the front & rear of the carb. You'll need a mirror and a flashlight, and you may need to remove one of your eyeballs as well. There should be fuel halfway up the window. If not, either the needle and seat in the carb is not working right (it's just like the valve in a toilet tank), or you're not getting fuel to the carb. (ie, bad fuel pump) If you have fuel in there, you definitely have a bad accellerator pump. Since it will run at higher rpm, I'd suspect the accellerator pump.
Kerry
Kerry
09-01-01, 04:03 AM
#11
Passenger
Posts: n/a
3rd Update.
Thanks Kerry, that was a cool little bit of info. I looked into the front sight glass and it is a little more than 1/2 full. Upon rereading your posting I see there is another sight glass in the rear. I have not checked it yet.
I talked to the carb shop and they agree it's probably the accelerator pump circuit. They also offered to pull the carb for me. I need to establish how much will be covered by warranty up front. To give them the benefit of the doubt it may have clogged after install.
I intend to add inline fuel filters and run some gas into a bucket to eliminate future problems. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
Hozer.
Thanks Kerry, that was a cool little bit of info. I looked into the front sight glass and it is a little more than 1/2 full. Upon rereading your posting I see there is another sight glass in the rear. I have not checked it yet.
I talked to the carb shop and they agree it's probably the accelerator pump circuit. They also offered to pull the carb for me. I need to establish how much will be covered by warranty up front. To give them the benefit of the doubt it may have clogged after install.
I intend to add inline fuel filters and run some gas into a bucket to eliminate future problems. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
Hozer.
09-01-01, 04:10 AM
#12
Passenger
Posts: n/a
3rd Update.
Thanks Kerry, that was a cool little bit of info. I looked into the front sight glass and it is a little more than 1/2 full. Upon rereading your posting I see there is another sight glass in the rear. I have not checked it yet.
I talked to the carb shop and they agree it's probably the accelerator pump circuit. They also offered to pull the carb for me. I need to establish how much will be covered by warranty up front. To give them the benefit of the doubt it may have clogged after install.
I intend to add inline fuel filters and run some gas into a bucket to eliminate future problems. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
Hozer.
Thanks Kerry, that was a cool little bit of info. I looked into the front sight glass and it is a little more than 1/2 full. Upon rereading your posting I see there is another sight glass in the rear. I have not checked it yet.
I talked to the carb shop and they agree it's probably the accelerator pump circuit. They also offered to pull the carb for me. I need to establish how much will be covered by warranty up front. To give them the benefit of the doubt it may have clogged after install.
I intend to add inline fuel filters and run some gas into a bucket to eliminate future problems. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
Hozer.
09-04-01, 10:25 AM
#13
Despise Enmity
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Richmond, VA
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Dont forget to check you vacuum hoses coming from the Air Control Valve, those (if cracked) can keep the car from idling, and make it run like ****. get a ACV blockoff plate. I almost rebuilt my carb then checked and found a leaky hose. 35 dollars later for the hose and 6 for the blockoff plate, it was running like a champ.
Josepi
91 TII
83 GSL
Josepi
91 TII
83 GSL
09-08-01, 11:36 AM
#14
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similar problem?
I am having the same problem that is being described here and I hope some one will still read this thread even thow it is a bit old. the main diferance is hat I know I have a vacum leak the hose that is the most forward in lower part of the rat's nest is off on one end but I cant figure out where it is soposed to go. I can't tell by the diagram on the hood where it should connect to and I have been looking very hard. the only clue I have is some blue paint on one end of the hose. but I can't find any missing ones going to the air box. any ideas or better yet good photo's?
thanks.
thanks.
09-10-01, 10:50 PM
#15
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Latest Update.
First, excuse the double post (duh!).
The carb shop checked the carb and damned if the accelerator pump wasn't full of junk.
I love it when I'm right (it's such a rare occasion). What got me thinking along that line (plugging off) was the fact that it sat so long and the idle cleared with some running.
There was nothing wrong with the engine install (excpt they gave up) and nothing wrong with the carb rebuild. It just plugged when they fired it up. Maybe they should have thought about purging the fuel lines.
I still intend to add inline fuel filters. I think there is also another stock one. I haven't read that far in my manual, but I picked one up (little white fuel filter w/ top feed) at the local parts store.
Which brings me to my final point. I picked up a factory service manual. It's about 1 1/2 inches thick and packed with more info than I need to know. I may also order a Haynes manual.
I can't wait to launch 'er.
Thanks,
Hozer.
Next to get the fuel gauge to move. That may take a couple of high speed railroad crossings.
First, excuse the double post (duh!).
The carb shop checked the carb and damned if the accelerator pump wasn't full of junk.
I love it when I'm right (it's such a rare occasion). What got me thinking along that line (plugging off) was the fact that it sat so long and the idle cleared with some running.
There was nothing wrong with the engine install (excpt they gave up) and nothing wrong with the carb rebuild. It just plugged when they fired it up. Maybe they should have thought about purging the fuel lines.
I still intend to add inline fuel filters. I think there is also another stock one. I haven't read that far in my manual, but I picked one up (little white fuel filter w/ top feed) at the local parts store.
Which brings me to my final point. I picked up a factory service manual. It's about 1 1/2 inches thick and packed with more info than I need to know. I may also order a Haynes manual.
I can't wait to launch 'er.
Thanks,
Hozer.
Next to get the fuel gauge to move. That may take a couple of high speed railroad crossings.
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