Building Peripheral Port housings
#351
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Ok Scalliwag, where were you back in the early 70's when the Puerto Ricans were working in their rotaries already for a while? I have seen these guys accomplished something done in their own backyard. Here you have to have a silver table because you don't want to get dirty. Over there they put together, test and retest until they see real results in their own place. You start learning about rotaries not long ago. Give credit to whom deserve it. If I win the lottery, I am personally calling you to take you there and show you what they do with what they have. Do you know that they have cars running in the 8.50's with no electronics or nitrous? Everything invented and aproved by your buddies in NHRA.
Wheather they invent the PP or not, hey give them credit for what they accomplished, which you just came up to play the game. Tell your buddy, the Puerto Rican to e-mail me, I need to set him strait.
Wheather they invent the PP or not, hey give them credit for what they accomplished, which you just came up to play the game. Tell your buddy, the Puerto Rican to e-mail me, I need to set him strait.
#352
WingmaN
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Originally Posted by crpdragracing
Ok Scalliwag, where were you back in the early 70's when the Puerto Ricans were working in their rotaries already for a while? I have seen these guys accomplished something done in their own backyard. Here you have to have a silver table because you don't want to get dirty. Over there they put together, test and retest until they see real results in their own place. You start learning about rotaries not long ago. Give credit to whom deserve it. If I win the lottery, I am personally calling you to take you there and show you what they do with what they have. Do you know that they have cars running in the 8.50's with no electronics or nitrous? Everything invented and aproved by your buddies in NHRA.
Wheather they invent the PP or not, hey give them credit for what they accomplished, which you just came up to play the game. Tell your buddy, the Puerto Rican to e-mail me, I need to set him strait.
Wheather they invent the PP or not, hey give them credit for what they accomplished, which you just came up to play the game. Tell your buddy, the Puerto Rican to e-mail me, I need to set him strait.
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I am not really sure how much you can teach him because he won the first ever NHRA Import All-Motor in 2000 here in Texas and is friends with the guys that run Ileana as well as every other notable rotary in PR for the last 20 years.
Plus according to him he taught them everything they know
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As far as me not getting dirty? My wife would sure as hell tell you thats not right.
Just because I have not worked on rotaries for 20 years don't mean ****. The GTO's, Firebirds, Chevelle's, etc. that I was building as well as that mini-monster truck phase had me more than prepared for this game. What I have done in the short time has beat the hell out of talking about working on rotaries for 20 years.
So chill out and read that post again from the point of someone that is having a little fun ragging on friends and the inherant confusion that surrounds the creation of some of the modifications. But I will take you up on the trip to PR if the opportunity comes up.
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#353
i am legendary
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I just went through this thread a little bit ago and I must say I'm very impressed. A peripheral port is a dream of mine one day. Have you or anyone you made these for used them in an engine yet? Any news on how well they help up? They look awesome.
#355
Originally Posted by Bridgeported
There is a huge debate over if it's necessary or not.
Most AUS/NZ rotary builders will swear upon it.
Most NA/PR rotary builders don't do it.
I'm not sure what that tells you though...
I know some rotary shops have given gurantees on their modified engines they sell to people that if they break from twisting they will replace it for free.
There doesn't seem to be a downside to dowling though (other than the price) so it could be good for a precautionary measure. Or is there a downside I just don't know about?
I've never dowelled a motor before... I've never made the power on a motor to require dowelling (yet
)
Most AUS/NZ rotary builders will swear upon it.
Most NA/PR rotary builders don't do it.
I'm not sure what that tells you though...
I know some rotary shops have given gurantees on their modified engines they sell to people that if they break from twisting they will replace it for free.
There doesn't seem to be a downside to dowling though (other than the price) so it could be good for a precautionary measure. Or is there a downside I just don't know about?
I've never dowelled a motor before... I've never made the power on a motor to require dowelling (yet
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#356
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
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Man how did I ever miss this thread.
Your thread just saved us alot of money(fucked MFR housings)
Tore apart the race engine in our trackcar, just to find that the housings were screwed.
www.wankelkim.net/rx7/fb
Thanks for being an inspiration source to the rotary community, Scalliwag
Kim
Your thread just saved us alot of money(fucked MFR housings)
Tore apart the race engine in our trackcar, just to find that the housings were screwed.
www.wankelkim.net/rx7/fb
Thanks for being an inspiration source to the rotary community, Scalliwag
Kim
#360
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
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Yeah the MFR ports have been modified a bit, I was told that some Swedish guy build the motor, but I havent found out who it was yet, I really wanna talk to him.
Yeah it sucks about the cracked housing, but life goes on and we dont have 2000$ for a new one, atleast they(there was two more with the spare motor) will make for an exclusive fishtank![Big Grin](https://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
One of the spare housings looks like its in great shape but its cracked by the leading sparkplug![Frown](https://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
I have been playing with the idea of getting it hardchromed and try it out, but with my luck it s a no-go, maybe Scalliwag knows if it will hold up???
Yeah it sucks about the cracked housing, but life goes on and we dont have 2000$ for a new one, atleast they(there was two more with the spare motor) will make for an exclusive fishtank
![Big Grin](https://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
One of the spare housings looks like its in great shape but its cracked by the leading sparkplug
![Frown](https://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
I have been playing with the idea of getting it hardchromed and try it out, but with my luck it s a no-go, maybe Scalliwag knows if it will hold up???
#364
Originally Posted by Arvika
Sweet, sweet sweet!
Just one little tiny question...
What kind of Devcon is used? They make a lot of different seal and reparing stuff!
Just one little tiny question...
What kind of Devcon is used? They make a lot of different seal and reparing stuff!
#367
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as a high temp alternative to Devcon you can use the titanium based liquid metal from locktite that's good to 400F or in our case we use a product called lab Metal it's good to over 1000F works on both int/exh.
#368
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I have been reviewing this thread for about a week, and great job everyone!
Anywho, only one question. What do you do about the tension bolt hole? Obviously there isn't any room for the bolt now... do you just not put the bolt in?? I remember seeing that someone made a very "strategic" bolt, but forgot where the pics were. I just remember seeind it, and the word "strategic" was used like 10 times. But it was basically a bolt ground into the shape of the tube, so it would fill the tension bolt hole, but... then a tension bolt coulden't go through the hole, which leads me back to question number one. Thanks for any answers...later
Anywho, only one question. What do you do about the tension bolt hole? Obviously there isn't any room for the bolt now... do you just not put the bolt in?? I remember seeing that someone made a very "strategic" bolt, but forgot where the pics were. I just remember seeind it, and the word "strategic" was used like 10 times. But it was basically a bolt ground into the shape of the tube, so it would fill the tension bolt hole, but... then a tension bolt coulden't go through the hole, which leads me back to question number one. Thanks for any answers...later
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#369
Old [Sch|F]ool
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I'm the one who did that.
I don't know about the newer 13B's, or the older 13B's for that matter, but on most later 12A's that tension bolt hole is unused. There isn't one, the boss in the back of the block isn't drilled. I would imagine that series 4's and up are also this way.
The bolt wasn't to plug the hole, the bolt was for something to attach the tube to! You cannot weld steel to aluminum no matter how hard you try.
I don't know about the newer 13B's, or the older 13B's for that matter, but on most later 12A's that tension bolt hole is unused. There isn't one, the boss in the back of the block isn't drilled. I would imagine that series 4's and up are also this way.
The bolt wasn't to plug the hole, the bolt was for something to attach the tube to! You cannot weld steel to aluminum no matter how hard you try.
#370
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Well I have a 1991 coup na motor I wanted to play with. I'll check if that bolt hole is used or not. And my bad, haha, I went to your site, and sure as ****, that is where I saw that. My bad, hahha...later
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#372
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On my PP road race motors, I used to get my side housings prepared by the same engine builder who puts in the PP in the rotor housings. Last year, I thought I can do that; anyone can pour some epoxy in the side housings to seal off those old intake ports. I chose the Devcon steel filled epoxy, since the side housings are made of iron. After the usual careful break in period, my PP engine ran strong, winning 2 races and one second place finish, and I was leading a 4th race when it suddenly lost compression on one rotor. During the autopsy, I found that the cause of failure was the steel filled Devcon broke out in large chunks out of one of the intake ports, which wiped out the side seals and that side of that rotor.
I called and asked my PP housing builder, Nick at Rotary Reliability in Santa Anna, CA. Nick has been making his own PP motors over 20 years now; 20 years ago he set a Bonneville Land Speed Record with his own PP motor. Nick said, don't use the steel filled Devcon, use the Aluminum filled Devcon. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I have been contemplating why aluminum over steel, and the only reason that I can think of is that maybe the aluminum filled Devcon conducts heat better than steel filled Devcon, so it is able to conduct heat out of itself and into the water cooled iron housing better. All I can say for sure is that Nick knows his stuff; my old 12A PP motor that he prepared the housings for lasted over 26 hours, and was still running well when I sold it to another road racer. On my current 13B motor, my Aluminum filled Devcon ports now have about 4 race hours on them (not counting break-in hours,) and I have won two more races with it this summer, beating out the 3 liter Porsches. Hopefully it will last many, many more race hours.
The Devcon to use is marked:
Aluminum Liquid F-2
10720
The Devcon is very expensive. Another tip Nick taught me is that you can use another, cheaper brand of epoxy to fill up to 3/4" from the face of the intake port, and then use the expensive Devcon to fill that last 3/4" that sees the heat of the rotors.
Do not pour the Devcon flush with the face of the side housing. Leave the Devcon at least .040" lower than the face of the side housing. Also remember that the Devcon may expand slightly while curing, so always pour it lower than the face of the side housing.
I called and asked my PP housing builder, Nick at Rotary Reliability in Santa Anna, CA. Nick has been making his own PP motors over 20 years now; 20 years ago he set a Bonneville Land Speed Record with his own PP motor. Nick said, don't use the steel filled Devcon, use the Aluminum filled Devcon. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I have been contemplating why aluminum over steel, and the only reason that I can think of is that maybe the aluminum filled Devcon conducts heat better than steel filled Devcon, so it is able to conduct heat out of itself and into the water cooled iron housing better. All I can say for sure is that Nick knows his stuff; my old 12A PP motor that he prepared the housings for lasted over 26 hours, and was still running well when I sold it to another road racer. On my current 13B motor, my Aluminum filled Devcon ports now have about 4 race hours on them (not counting break-in hours,) and I have won two more races with it this summer, beating out the 3 liter Porsches. Hopefully it will last many, many more race hours.
The Devcon to use is marked:
Aluminum Liquid F-2
10720
The Devcon is very expensive. Another tip Nick taught me is that you can use another, cheaper brand of epoxy to fill up to 3/4" from the face of the intake port, and then use the expensive Devcon to fill that last 3/4" that sees the heat of the rotors.
Do not pour the Devcon flush with the face of the side housing. Leave the Devcon at least .040" lower than the face of the side housing. Also remember that the Devcon may expand slightly while curing, so always pour it lower than the face of the side housing.
Last edited by speedturn; 08-20-05 at 09:18 AM.
#373
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
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Originally Posted by REVHED
Many people have done pp turbo's and I think you'll find the port timing is pretty similar to what you'd have on an n/a engine. This is the Scoot secondary pp turbo engine.
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Just reading through this thread and thought I would add a correction , that is not a scoot housing, that is Takashi Aoki from Revolution MC, who pioneered the cross-port engine....max