Yall Be the Judge
07-10-09, 07:21 PM
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Yall Be the Judge
So im out of ideas and my brains gone nuts.lol.but anyways back on topic im going to run an N/A but want some great ideas.Im going to the Army soon and when i come out of training im pretty much dumping all of the sign up bonus and 2 months on the car.lol.Its bout 12k.So with that being the budget i want people to go ahead and give me ideas for a N/A beast.Im talking bout 220hp at least........anythings posible.Dont tell me go turbo either ive heard enough of that crap.lol.well go crazy and start listing
07-10-09, 09:06 PM
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Few things need answering first:
1) 1st or 2nd gen and what year.
2) Daily driver, weekend warrior, or dedicated track car
3) Is that 12k just on the engine alone or for a whole restoration project (ie paint, interior, wheels, engine)
4) Will you be performing the work (and if so, do you have basic mechanics skills or do you have more advanced skills such as fabrication, electrical, etc.) or is a shop going to be assisting in your build?
-Blake
1) 1st or 2nd gen and what year.
2) Daily driver, weekend warrior, or dedicated track car
3) Is that 12k just on the engine alone or for a whole restoration project (ie paint, interior, wheels, engine)
4) Will you be performing the work (and if so, do you have basic mechanics skills or do you have more advanced skills such as fabrication, electrical, etc.) or is a shop going to be assisting in your build?
-Blake
07-11-09, 02:29 AM
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So im out of ideas and my brains gone nuts.lol.but anyways back on topic im going to run an N/A but want some great ideas.Im going to the Army soon and when i come out of training im pretty much dumping all of the sign up bonus and 2 months on the car.lol.Its bout 12k.So with that being the budget i want people to go ahead and give me ideas for a N/A beast.Im talking bout 220hp at least........anythings posible.Dont tell me go turbo either ive heard enough of that crap.lol.well go crazy and start listing
If you are looking to build a monster and want to keep it NA, look into a bridgeport as a minimum. If you are looking for some real zip though, a semi-pp or a full pp would be better. On a budget a p-port would be fine on a carb.
07-11-09, 10:08 AM
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Heres what I would do
Pick up a 3 rotor off ebay $3500 If you know how to do your own rebuild have the housing Perpherial ported $250 each ( $750 whole job ) here at the machine shop. Have a custom p-port manifold made ( $1500-$2500 ) and put 6 48 ida carbs ( $3000ish ) on it thats the most bang for your buck. This is actually my plan I am only in phase one ordering the 20b off ebay. I have seen some nice custom intakes online. This set up will get you way more then 300 hp n/a
07-11-09, 12:26 PM
#5
Pick up a 3 rotor off ebay $3500 If you know how to do your own rebuild have the housing Perpherial ported $250 each ( $750 whole job ) here at the machine shop. Have a custom p-port manifold made ( $1500-$2500 ) and put 6 48 ida carbs ( $3000ish ) on it thats the most bang for your buck. This is actually my plan I am only in phase one ordering the 20b off ebay. I have seen some nice custom intakes online. This set up will get you way more then 300 hp n/a
That is overcarburation. To the max. I am sure if he can afford a 20BPP he can run FI.
Also, PP is not something you want.
07-11-09, 02:50 PM
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lol damn theres a lot of ideas and theyre all good.oh and its a 2nd Gen.I knowhow to work with rotaries but not everything.My friend is acually doing the internals.He knows how to port and what not.He the one that rebuilt my engine hes going carb.But yeah i was going full p port with a ported manifold.other than the engine work my brains gonna be haltech and the other stuff as in clutch,lsd,flywheel,suspensin,etc.idk.but thats what yall r for.lol.just keep going.im loking for a track car.might even go 50 shot nos for when i hit 1/4 mile.but thats sumthing going deep into thoght.Heard bout the whole seals burning out and whtatever.Keep going with ideas.Like switchng internals.Lighter rotors,eccentric shat,gears.blah bla
07-11-09, 02:50 PM
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Pick up a 3 rotor off ebay $3500 If you know how to do your own rebuild have the housing Perpherial ported $250 each ( $750 whole job ) here at the machine shop. Have a custom p-port manifold made ( $1500-$2500 ) and put 6 48 ida carbs ( $3000ish ) on it thats the most bang for your buck. This is actually my plan I am only in phase one ordering the 20b off ebay. I have seen some nice custom intakes online. This set up will get you way more then 300 hp n/a
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07-11-09, 02:59 PM
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13B-ADDICT, Suggest you read through these three threads. Their all on one extensive engine build by GtoRx7.
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/simple-gain-suggestions-n-owners-715386/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/216rwhp-streetport-13bre-sure-did-take-while-801325/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/make-230rwhp-streetport-13bre-n-818133/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/simple-gain-suggestions-n-owners-715386/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/216rwhp-streetport-13bre-sure-did-take-while-801325/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/make-230rwhp-streetport-13bre-n-818133/
07-13-09, 11:26 PM
#12
Pick up a 3 rotor off ebay $3500 If you know how to do your own rebuild have the housing Perpherial ported $250 each ( $750 whole job ) here at the machine shop. Have a custom p-port manifold made ( $1500-$2500 ) and put 6 48 ida carbs ( $3000ish ) on it thats the most bang for your buck. This is actually my plan I am only in phase one ordering the 20b off ebay. I have seen some nice custom intakes online. This set up will get you way more then 300 hp n/a
07-17-09, 03:38 AM
#13
what i was going to say. except for the HP estimation. i believe it to be more if done right.
and there are a people i have seen on here with a bridged renesis. you can also semi-pp the renesis. thats been done also.
cheap easy power, from my view...
renesis 6 port core
clean up ports and polish nicely (or if your feeling crazy, bridge or semi-pp it)
48mm webbers or holley 650
modify Racing Beat manifold to fit carbs, or custom make an intake manifold
1st gen distributor for ignition
and other thing to get it in the car: mounts, oil pan, 12a or FC front cover
will make (from my guess) 240-250 WHP. and be VERY streetable. and now theres upgraded apex seals for the renesis!!!
07-17-09, 10:20 AM
#14
Here's something to think about when it comes to estimating power potential from a Renesis. Mazdatrix did a peripheral intake port/ side exhaust port combo on a Renesis and got basically 260 hp on an engine dyno. Speedsource Racing has dynoed over 200 combinations (as of my conversation with them 2 years ago so it's probably far more now) including porting, ignition, intake manifolds, exhausts, etc and could not get more than about 260 hp on an engine dyno. The engines they raced at the time were 2 rotors in a different class then their current 3 rotor car. What engine combo did they have? They had STOCK Renesis engines complete with the factory intake manifold, coils, and even the stock paper air filter. With the exception of good tuning, an exhaust, flywheel, and 98 octane fuel, they still got about 260 hp at the crank. On stock ports! That means the peripheral intake ports aren't an advantage when it comes to making more power. I would be curious to see the whole powerband though.
This suggests that the ultimate limiting factor on those engines is not the intake ports. That would mean bridging shouldn't do much. The most power I've seen anyone get on a street car on stock ports is just above 220 rwhp. Speedsource stated that when their engines dyno at around 260 on an engine dyno, it's about 230 at the wheels. 220 at the wheels on a street car is pretty nice but the average is going to be closer to 210 for someone who is fairly good. This also assumes that the engine is tight and seals well complete with good apex seal lubrication. It's that last few hp that is the "black art".
You aren't going to see 240-250 rwhp out of a Renesis. Not without some VERY special exhaust work on the housings themselves. Having ported a Renesis I can tell you, there isn't much at all that can be done to the exhaust ports although I wish there were. They're terrible and ultimately what is holding back the engine from making more power. The fact that it's got side ports isn't the issue. It's the shape of the ports and the transition to the exhaust runners that's the biggest problem. Unfortunately it can't be fixed. At least no one has figured out how to yet. Don't waste the time on the intake ports. They aren't the problem. There is also no issue whatsoever to not having port overlap. It's not always necessary and ultimately doesn't do what everyone thinks it does. It has it's place though.
The Webers or the Holley aren't going to give you the power of the stock manifold and definitely can't give you the wide powerband. That's what makes those engines really nice. Peak power is a worthless number without a high average. A carb system won't have both when comparing it to the stock fuel injection. It'll have one or the other.
You can use a 12A or 13B front cover and a distributer or a cas. However the oil pan will have to be made. You can either fab one up from scratch or cut 2 apart and weld them together. What you'll find if you try to bolt up a 13B pan is that it's too short. The Renesis end housings are thicker than those on a 13B.
For engine mounts, if it's a 1st gen it's pretty straight forward. For a 2nd gen, you can basically use the driver's side mount as is. For the passenger side, use another driver's side mount and then add a spacer to it as it has to be pushed out several inches. Problem solved.
This suggests that the ultimate limiting factor on those engines is not the intake ports. That would mean bridging shouldn't do much. The most power I've seen anyone get on a street car on stock ports is just above 220 rwhp. Speedsource stated that when their engines dyno at around 260 on an engine dyno, it's about 230 at the wheels. 220 at the wheels on a street car is pretty nice but the average is going to be closer to 210 for someone who is fairly good. This also assumes that the engine is tight and seals well complete with good apex seal lubrication. It's that last few hp that is the "black art".
You aren't going to see 240-250 rwhp out of a Renesis. Not without some VERY special exhaust work on the housings themselves. Having ported a Renesis I can tell you, there isn't much at all that can be done to the exhaust ports although I wish there were. They're terrible and ultimately what is holding back the engine from making more power. The fact that it's got side ports isn't the issue. It's the shape of the ports and the transition to the exhaust runners that's the biggest problem. Unfortunately it can't be fixed. At least no one has figured out how to yet. Don't waste the time on the intake ports. They aren't the problem. There is also no issue whatsoever to not having port overlap. It's not always necessary and ultimately doesn't do what everyone thinks it does. It has it's place though.
The Webers or the Holley aren't going to give you the power of the stock manifold and definitely can't give you the wide powerband. That's what makes those engines really nice. Peak power is a worthless number without a high average. A carb system won't have both when comparing it to the stock fuel injection. It'll have one or the other.
You can use a 12A or 13B front cover and a distributer or a cas. However the oil pan will have to be made. You can either fab one up from scratch or cut 2 apart and weld them together. What you'll find if you try to bolt up a 13B pan is that it's too short. The Renesis end housings are thicker than those on a 13B.
For engine mounts, if it's a 1st gen it's pretty straight forward. For a 2nd gen, you can basically use the driver's side mount as is. For the passenger side, use another driver's side mount and then add a spacer to it as it has to be pushed out several inches. Problem solved.
07-17-09, 11:00 AM
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I say bridgeport the 13B, get a good header such as the GToRx7 header. It's tunable, so you can eek the last little bit of power out of it, as well as mandrel bend piping back to the muffler. Ignition, Megasuirt computer, clutch and light flywheel. Poly bushings everywhere in the suspension and then throw some big money at the coilovers, wheels and tires.
07-17-09, 07:36 PM
#17
Here's something to think about when it comes to estimating power potential from a Renesis. Mazdatrix did a peripheral intake port/ side exhaust port combo on a Renesis and got basically 260 hp on an engine dyno. Speedsource Racing has dynoed over 200 combinations (as of my conversation with them 2 years ago so it's probably far more now) including porting, ignition, intake manifolds, exhausts, etc and could not get more than about 260 hp on an engine dyno. The engines they raced at the time were 2 rotors in a different class then their current 3 rotor car. What engine combo did they have? They had STOCK Renesis engines complete with the factory intake manifold, coils, and even the stock paper air filter. With the exception of good tuning, an exhaust, flywheel, and 98 octane fuel, they still got about 260 hp at the crank. On stock ports! That means the peripheral intake ports aren't an advantage when it comes to making more power. I would be curious to see the whole powerband though.
This suggests that the ultimate limiting factor on those engines is not the intake ports. That would mean bridging shouldn't do much. The most power I've seen anyone get on a street car on stock ports is just above 220 rwhp. Speedsource stated that when their engines dyno at around 260 on an engine dyno, it's about 230 at the wheels. 220 at the wheels on a street car is pretty nice but the average is going to be closer to 210 for someone who is fairly good. This also assumes that the engine is tight and seals well complete with good apex seal lubrication. It's that last few hp that is the "black art".
You aren't going to see 240-250 rwhp out of a Renesis. Not without some VERY special exhaust work on the housings themselves. Having ported a Renesis I can tell you, there isn't much at all that can be done to the exhaust ports although I wish there were. They're terrible and ultimately what is holding back the engine from making more power. The fact that it's got side ports isn't the issue. It's the shape of the ports and the transition to the exhaust runners that's the biggest problem. Unfortunately it can't be fixed. At least no one has figured out how to yet. Don't waste the time on the intake ports. They aren't the problem. There is also no issue whatsoever to not having port overlap. It's not always necessary and ultimately doesn't do what everyone thinks it does. It has it's place though.
The Webers or the Holley aren't going to give you the power of the stock manifold and definitely can't give you the wide powerband. That's what makes those engines really nice. Peak power is a worthless number without a high average. A carb system won't have both when comparing it to the stock fuel injection. It'll have one or the other.
You can use a 12A or 13B front cover and a distributer or a cas. However the oil pan will have to be made. You can either fab one up from scratch or cut 2 apart and weld them together. What you'll find if you try to bolt up a 13B pan is that it's too short. The Renesis end housings are thicker than those on a 13B.
For engine mounts, if it's a 1st gen it's pretty straight forward. For a 2nd gen, you can basically use the driver's side mount as is. For the passenger side, use another driver's side mount and then add a spacer to it as it has to be pushed out several inches. Problem solved.
This suggests that the ultimate limiting factor on those engines is not the intake ports. That would mean bridging shouldn't do much. The most power I've seen anyone get on a street car on stock ports is just above 220 rwhp. Speedsource stated that when their engines dyno at around 260 on an engine dyno, it's about 230 at the wheels. 220 at the wheels on a street car is pretty nice but the average is going to be closer to 210 for someone who is fairly good. This also assumes that the engine is tight and seals well complete with good apex seal lubrication. It's that last few hp that is the "black art".
You aren't going to see 240-250 rwhp out of a Renesis. Not without some VERY special exhaust work on the housings themselves. Having ported a Renesis I can tell you, there isn't much at all that can be done to the exhaust ports although I wish there were. They're terrible and ultimately what is holding back the engine from making more power. The fact that it's got side ports isn't the issue. It's the shape of the ports and the transition to the exhaust runners that's the biggest problem. Unfortunately it can't be fixed. At least no one has figured out how to yet. Don't waste the time on the intake ports. They aren't the problem. There is also no issue whatsoever to not having port overlap. It's not always necessary and ultimately doesn't do what everyone thinks it does. It has it's place though.
The Webers or the Holley aren't going to give you the power of the stock manifold and definitely can't give you the wide powerband. That's what makes those engines really nice. Peak power is a worthless number without a high average. A carb system won't have both when comparing it to the stock fuel injection. It'll have one or the other.
You can use a 12A or 13B front cover and a distributer or a cas. However the oil pan will have to be made. You can either fab one up from scratch or cut 2 apart and weld them together. What you'll find if you try to bolt up a 13B pan is that it's too short. The Renesis end housings are thicker than those on a 13B.
For engine mounts, if it's a 1st gen it's pretty straight forward. For a 2nd gen, you can basically use the driver's side mount as is. For the passenger side, use another driver's side mount and then add a spacer to it as it has to be pushed out several inches. Problem solved.
One thing though. The periported intake renisis engines made a **** load of mid range torque. Waaayyy more than a normal renesis. https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/backwards-13b-827335/
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